Author Topic: Adjustable magneto gear  (Read 1847 times)

Offline chaterlea25

  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2009
  • Posts: 4439
  • Karma: 56
Adjustable magneto gear
« on: 10.06. 2023 22:41 »
Hi All,
I came across these photos on FB and thought You Lot might like to see them
The originators name is on the photos
I have heard/ read of these being described as Vernier but they have no vernier features so just
slotted adjustment

John
1961 Super Rocket
1963 RGS (ongoing)

Offline mikeb

  • Resident Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Dec 2014
  • Posts: 856
  • Karma: 13
Re: Adjustable magneto gear
« Reply #1 on: 11.06. 2023 10:15 »
that's interesting. would make timing a lot easier.
New Zealand
'61 Super Rocket  - '47 B33 -  '25 Triumph Speed Triple RS

Online Rex

  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Apr 2017
  • Posts: 2041
  • Karma: 10
Re: Adjustable magneto gear
« Reply #2 on: 11.06. 2023 12:39 »
The mag chain drive sprocket used on Ariel singles has had this arrangement available for years, and very useful it is too.

Offline CheeserBeezer

  • Resident Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Dec 2021
  • Posts: 857
  • Karma: 18
    • Priory Magnetos Ltd
Re: Adjustable magneto gear
« Reply #3 on: 11.06. 2023 15:41 »
TBH I can't see the point! It isn't difficult to pull off and replace the solid gear. I don't particularly like the aluminium gear either. If somebody could create a similar arrangements for the ATD, that would be different!!

Offline Swarfcut

  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Oct 2018
  • Posts: 2701
  • Karma: 58
Re: Adjustable magneto gear
« Reply #4 on: 11.06. 2023 17:05 »
 Me neither. The point of a manual maggy with a solid drive gear is that the timing can be altered at the touch of a lever. Agree that it would only be of use with an ATD. A great shame that Joe Lucas never put big slots on that flange mounted body, or made it a variable clamp type arrangement similar to vehicle distributors.

 Swarfy.

Online Rex

  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Apr 2017
  • Posts: 2041
  • Karma: 10
Re: Adjustable magneto gear
« Reply #5 on: 11.06. 2023 18:58 »
The advantage to this arrangement is that it allows fine adjustment when setting the timing, unlike the more crude usual method of pulling the gear off the taper and trying again...and again and again to get it spot-on.

Online muskrat

  • Global Moderator
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • **
  • Join Date: Jul 2009
  • Posts: 11457
  • Karma: 137
  • Lithgow NSW Oz
    • Shoalhaven Classic Motorcycle Club Inc
Re: Adjustable magneto gear
« Reply #6 on: 11.06. 2023 20:37 »
G'day John.
Similar to the vernier cam sprockets to dial in cam timing on race engines.
I agree it be better suited to an ATD. I think orabanda's mag body bolt hole slotting is the best remedy.
Cheers
'51 A7 plunger, '57 A7SS racer now a A10CR,  '83 CB1100F, 88 HD FXST, 2000 CBR929RR ex Honda Australia Superbike .
Australia
Muskys Plunger A7

Online groily

  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Jul 2007
  • Posts: 2150
  • Karma: 33
Re: Adjustable magneto gear
« Reply #7 on: 12.06. 2023 07:15 »
I think orabanda's mag body bolt hole slotting is the best remedy.

I agree - for machines with a 'long nut' lower fastener for the mag. No help on those which use a nut and bolt inserted behind timing gear or sprocket though sadly.
There have been loads of efforts to make it easier to retime and / or adjust over the years - Rex' Ariel thing, Panthers, lots of older continental efforts, various couplings on cars, use of keyed drive components and so on. End of the day, it's just one of those jobs, but it would be great if there were easy ways of fine tuning to find the sweetest spot on full advance, without upsetting the internal settings of a mag. Playing with alloy head As is a case in point, given their propensity to pink on book settings quite commonly, but it is also relevant in terms of suiting fuel quality. Me, I tend to go for a couple of degrees less max advance than book for starters, and see how it goes.

Orabanda's older post about dynamometer testing various As is always at the back of my mind, where he showed that less advance was helpful in terms of power and torque in some cases. The variations specified between similar engines of similar design is really quite large, from the Very Big Numbers on Trihards and AMC twins to the more reasonable figures on Notruns, some of which run best at 28-30°, via Beesas somewhere in between. I always understood, rightly or wrongly, that the need for massive advance spoke to inherent design flaws, but WTHDIK.
Bill

Online Rex

  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Apr 2017
  • Posts: 2041
  • Karma: 10
Re: Adjustable magneto gear
« Reply #8 on: 12.06. 2023 09:19 »
Similarly on Indian V-twins the LH twist-grip advances/retards the ignition by a length of piano wire turning the distributor body. Movement is limited by a screw moving in a arcuate slot outside of the distributor. Total movement (ie the length of the slot) is maybe 1/2".
Some years back an American guru of the marque put several bikes on a dyno to find the sweet spot, and the conclusion was that the slot was too long by about 50% for the most efficient use, and he recommended partially welding up the slot.
I didn't bother as the engine pulled well at full advance, and crowd-pleasingly plonked like a Matchie trials bike at full retard.

Online groily

  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Jul 2007
  • Posts: 2150
  • Karma: 33
Re: Adjustable magneto gear
« Reply #9 on: 12.06. 2023 11:39 »
'Tis true Rex - there's more retard built-in on most things than is called for.

As evidenced by the relatively small movement of typical ATDs compared with that available on many manual magnetos:
 
* The standard 47305A/E ATD fitted on A's gives 11-13° at the mag, or 22-26° on the crank. Same range on Norton twins. (Trihards had a bit more.)
* Many manual mags have very close to 20° mag /40° crank  . . . .

Not as familiar as you with Indians' dizzies, but sounds like a similar level of generosity on the designer's part!



Bill