Author Topic: Smashed Valve Collar  (Read 9529 times)

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Re: Smashed Valve Collar
« Reply #45 on: 11.02. 2025 19:13 »
G'day Ian.
Great to hear mate. *yeah*
Did you take a pic of the adjustable pushrods? Did you use them to get the correct (for your motor) length then use that to make solids?
Yes looks a bit warm down your way today, 43C = 109F
Cheers
'51 A7 plunger, '57 A7SS racer now a A10CR,  '83 CB1100F, 88 HD FXST, 2000 CBR929RR ex Honda Australia Superbike .
Australia
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Offline BagONails

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Re: Smashed Valve Collar
« Reply #46 on: 12.02. 2025 04:10 »
Hi Musky, Here's a piccy so you can compare
Four remaining VW rods at the top - as you can see these have plenty of material in them to allow cutting to length, I figured they must be up to the job they were free, and I'm making them shorter so all good!

I picked my better (less bent) original rod cut it in half, tapped the cut ends 1/4 BSF, thread was a bit marginal but good enough for the job, I already had an idea what length I needed so I set it to this plus an extra 0.2mm for luck. I was a bit worried the nuts might foul the Cyl Hd gasket or the adjacent inlet rod but in fact it was fine. Built it all up dry and the job looked a goodun so happy my size guesstimate was pretty close to perfect. I only needed the one adjustable rod as I was happy 9-17/32" was ideal for the other exhaust one.

The other set was a standard set I got from Mike in Queensland, they are 8-1/2 and 9-1/2" so you can see the difference to what I needed, the photo lies but I can assure you the LH end of all the rods were in line!

I cut the VW rods at 20mm in from each end. Put each short cut end in the lathe and faced it back until I could see the end of the steel insert. Held the steel ball end in the 3 jaw and put a small live centre in the exposed end of the insert. Went in with a sharp grooving tool and progressively turned the aluminium off the insert until it let go. Faced each end of the remaining section of aluminium tube to length
less the allowance for each insert ball end 7mm x 2 from memory. The interference is pretty extreme at 0.3mm so it needed a nice 20 deg x1 lead in each end. Warmed the tube end up with a propane torch and gripping the ball end with a pair of point nose pliers I gently tapped it in to just get it started straight, then used my hydraulic press to squeeze the inserts home, one end at a time.

When I measured the finished length of the new rods they came out within 0.1 of my target sizes so pretty happy with them.
The VW rods are hollow and the inserts are drilled for pressure fed oil to run through the rod. BSA never bothered with this being happy for oil to splash around and run down the outsides. Either way I don't think the tiny 1mm centre drilling each end will have any adverse effects. I did clean the insides out before reassembly but there was very little muck in there.

As Klaus says the finished weight of these is less than half the original's so a good improvement for a race bike. All I want is an engine that keeps running!  *smile*
 
Ian
59 GF A10
67 Spitfire under resto
2013 kwaka W800 Desert Sled (ex write off)

Nil Desperandum

Offline jjbsa

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Re: Smashed Valve Collar
« Reply #47 on: 12.02. 2025 10:08 »
Hi Ian,
Thanks very much for this posting.  I have had a set of VW pushrods waiting for conversion to BSA use for a long time, and your description of the shortening process is very helpful.  I agree that the amount of interference does seem rather a lot.

Could I ask if there is definitely no coil binding going on when the valves are at full lift?  With the engine built up, setting a valve at full lift, then using something like a big screwdriver between the top of the rocker and the underside of the top of the rockerbox to lever it down, will show this and give peace of mind  :-)
Cheers,
Jon

Offline Klaus

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Re: Smashed Valve Collar
« Reply #48 on: 12.02. 2025 10:26 »
Hi All *smile*

you only need to remove one Top to short the pushrod *grins*

Klaus


If you think, everything is under control, you are not fast enought.

BSA DB34 Goldstar, BSA A10 Road Rocked, BSA A7 Shooting Star, BSA M33, BSA M24, Kawa W650

Offline Klaus

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Re: Smashed Valve Collar
« Reply #49 on: 12.02. 2025 10:46 »
Hi All *smile*

you only need to remove one Top to short the pushrod *grins*

This conversion worth not only at race engines, in conjuktion with the one spring and alloy collars
you reduce the moving mass nearly best you can.

There are to kind of camfollowers, the one with the rounded cup is heavier than the other.

I processed them with the flap sander to reduce wight.
So I reduced wight from cam follower to valve stem around 80 gramms per valve gear.

Running the engine there is only a light ticking from the valves, really a smooth runner.

Klaus


If you think, everything is under control, you are not fast enought.

BSA DB34 Goldstar, BSA A10 Road Rocked, BSA A7 Shooting Star, BSA M33, BSA M24, Kawa W650

Offline BagONails

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Re: Smashed Valve Collar
« Reply #50 on: 12.02. 2025 12:34 »
Hi All *smile*

you only need to remove one Top to short the pushrod *grins*

Klaus
True Klaus! Haha you spotted my deliberate mistake...
Ian
59 GF A10
67 Spitfire under resto
2013 kwaka W800 Desert Sled (ex write off)

Nil Desperandum

Offline BagONails

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Re: Smashed Valve Collar
« Reply #51 on: 12.02. 2025 13:00 »
Hi Ian,
Thanks very much for this posting.  I have had a set of VW pushrods waiting for conversion to BSA use for a long time, and your description of the shortening process is very helpful.  I agree that the amount of interference does seem rather a lot.

Could I ask if there is definitely no coil binding going on when the valves are at full lift?  With the engine built up, setting a valve at full lift, then using something like a big screwdriver between the top of the rocker and the underside of the top of the rockerbox to lever it down, will show this and give peace of mind  :-)
Cheers,
Jon

Hi Jon, No problem, as Klaus says you only really need to cut and reassemble one end! Although it was easier to measure all the parts and turn the centre tube back the required amount with everything apart so I stand by my method  *smile*

I like your check for no coil binding, I will have a look at that in the morning, although I don't anticipate any problems.
The push rod length doesn't change the amount of lift, that is in the cam profile.  The valve clearance is still set at 0.010-0.012" and then the cam takes over.  The amount of valve movement would change very slightly by the improved starting angle to the valve stem but the difference would be minor and the clearance between the coils is set by the assembled heights you check when you build the valve gear up in the head.

The push rod length changes the starting position/angle so this is about the geometry between the valve stem and the tappet. In my case the tappet was about 30 degrees to the valve stem which puts a lot of side load on the stem and rapid valve guide wear. The rocker arm was also too high only 0.010" off the rocker box lid. The lock nut was almost off the top of the threads...
Ian
59 GF A10
67 Spitfire under resto
2013 kwaka W800 Desert Sled (ex write off)

Nil Desperandum

Offline Klaus

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Re: Smashed Valve Collar
« Reply #52 on: 12.02. 2025 14:09 »

The push rod length changes the starting position/angle so this is about the geometry between the valve stem and the tappet. In my case the tappet was about 30 degrees to the valve stem which puts a lot of side load on the stem and rapid valve guide wear. The rocker arm was also too high only 0.010" off the rocker box lid. The lock nut was almost off the top of the threads...
[/quote]

Thats the reason why I use this ones:

https://www.bug-world.de/de/Kipphebel-1-25-735.html

another advantage is ther s no cup building at the valve stem an you have allways a correct meassurement.

The threads are nearly the same, so I run a metric tab throught the rocker arms *whistle*




If you think, everything is under control, you are not fast enought.

BSA DB34 Goldstar, BSA A10 Road Rocked, BSA A7 Shooting Star, BSA M33, BSA M24, Kawa W650

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Re: Smashed Valve Collar
« Reply #53 on: 12.02. 2025 19:09 »
G'day Klaus.
Those adjusters are very interesting, the contact end "wobbles" so practically no wear. I use the "mushroom" head adjusters which are good but those would be much better.
Thanks for posting.
Cheers
'51 A7 plunger, '57 A7SS racer now a A10CR,  '83 CB1100F, 88 HD FXST, 2000 CBR929RR ex Honda Australia Superbike .
Australia
Muskys Plunger A7