Author Topic: 12 volt + earth regulator  (Read 4022 times)

Offline Guy Wilson

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12 volt + earth regulator
« on: 22.04. 2025 15:05 »
Hello!
I have a 12volt + earth Lucas regulator almost identical to the original 6V one..  (from a late 60's MGB) Would the standard Dynamo work through this? I'm assuming it will although the charge rate would not be as effective a slower engine speeds... All thoughts gratefully received!
Many thanks,
Guy

Online Bsareg

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Re: 12 volt + earth regulator
« Reply #1 on: 22.04. 2025 16:50 »
Although they are of similar construction, the setting are completely different between the two. I'd also be wary of using the 12v one to convert the bike to 12v as it will push 12 volt through the field coil. The modern electronic 12v regulators (when converting 6v dynamos to 12v) usually limit the field voltage to prevent the field coil from cooking.
Helston, Cornwall C11,B40,B44 Victor,A10,RGS,M21,Rocket3,REBSA

Offline trevinoz

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Re: 12 volt + earth regulator
« Reply #2 on: 22.04. 2025 23:09 »
If you limit the field voltage wouldn't you also limit the armature voltage output?
The mechanical regulator does limit the voltage to the field, that's what regulators do.
But, if you are going to run a 6V generator at 12V it is advisable to at least fit a 12V field coil, it will run much cooler and have improved output.

Offline Triton Thrasher

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Re: 12 volt + earth regulator
« Reply #3 on: 23.04. 2025 07:19 »
I’ve done it and it did work.

Online Bsareg

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Re: 12 volt + earth regulator
« Reply #4 on: 23.04. 2025 10:08 »
The output voltage is dependent on a combination of field voltage and engine revs. The mechanical regulator controls the field voltage by quickly switching on and off a resistance in the field circuit until the set output voltage is reached. While the resistance is shorted, the full battery voltage is passed to the field coil. This switching is the ' buzzing' heard when altering the settings. Obviously a fully charged battery would keep the resistance in circuit and limit the field voltage until the voltage dropped then the full battery voltage is applied intermittently to the field coil. One way round it is to fit a 12v field coil but it might be easier to buy a 6v regulator. Keith
Helston, Cornwall C11,B40,B44 Victor,A10,RGS,M21,Rocket3,REBSA

Offline Guy Wilson

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Re: 12 volt + earth regulator
« Reply #5 on: 23.04. 2025 11:40 »
I'm learning.. I hope..
Is the field coil the one in the dynamo or the one in the regulator/control box? Does the dynamo produce current/voltage  that varies with engine speed and is regulated by the regulator / control box to 12 or 6 volts depending on the regulator used? does the additional 6 volts the dynamo has to produce before the control box cuts at 12 volts have an effect on the dynamo? Its rotating at the same speed for either scenario..
I have an electronic + earth 12volt regulator which I could fit. How does the electronic one treat the dynamo differently if at all?
Guy


Offline Swarfcut

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Re: 12 volt + earth regulator
« Reply #6 on: 23.04. 2025 13:54 »
  Back in the day, fitting a 12 volt regulator from a scrapyard car was done with little thought to the longevity of the dynamo, but by all accounts 6v dynamos are reasonably happy with modern electronic regulators.

 To answer your questions, the Field Coil is the one in the Dynamo....Terminal F. Terminal D is the Dynamo output, voltage and current here depend on the engine speed, electrical load and state of charge of the battery. Controlling this power is the function of the regulator, neatly explained by Reg. The voltage applied to the field coil is a series of  battery voltage on/off pulses as the regulator switches on and off ( small sparks can be seen, along with the buzz as the contacts open and close) to alter the magnetic field in which the armature rotates, so keeping the dynamo output within required parameters.  Without a battery this fine control is lost, D and F are in effect joined and full  unregulated output will blow bulbs if the bike is driven hard.

 Running a 6volt dynamo at 12 volts means it works that bit harder. OK in cooler climes, dunno about higher temperatures. If you have an electronic regulator to hand, worth a try anyway. It will exercise control as before.  Take care with battery polarity, and fit a fuse in the battery earth lead. This will protect all circuits, not just those wired via the ammeter.

 Swarfy.

 

Offline Guy Wilson

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Re: 12 volt + earth regulator
« Reply #7 on: 23.04. 2025 13:59 »
thank you all! I feel educated and able to an informed decision...
best
Guy

Offline Triton Thrasher

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Re: 12 volt + earth regulator
« Reply #8 on: 23.04. 2025 18:05 »
How hard you are making the dynamo work is a function of the load you put on it.  A 60 watt 6 volt dynamo can generate much more than 60 watts at 12 volts, but that causes heat in the dynamo, which can burn it out.

My experience is that a 6 volt short E3 dynamo regulated to 12 volts can power a 60 watt headlight and a 6 watt tail light without destroying itself.

The dynamo needs more rpm to start charging, when regulated to 12 volts. In my case that was about 2,200 rpm with lights off.  You cannot use an incandescent headlight bulb in slow traffic for long, before the battery goes flat and the light goes out.  You have to switch to an LED or 10 watt halogen pilot light when you reach a town.

Offline CheeserBeezer

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Re: 12 volt + earth regulator
« Reply #9 on: 23.04. 2025 19:50 »
One of my customers melted two 12v armatures by running heated grips! Duh!

Online Rex

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Re: 12 volt + earth regulator
« Reply #10 on: 25.04. 2025 09:38 »
Running a nominally 6V dynamo at a regulated 12V output doesn't sit well with me, even though many have said it works OK in practice.
I fitted a replacement 12V armature and 12V field coil...not difficult or expensive.

Online groily

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Re: 12 volt + earth regulator
« Reply #11 on: 25.04. 2025 11:57 »
One of my customers melted two 12v armatures by running heated grips! Duh!
I did run Oxford Hot Hands 'wraps' on my A10 for several winters using the standard E3L and a DVR at 12v though CB - 34W load as I recall, and that was OK with a 35W globe, and then LEDs later on to be on the safer side. Have done the same on cold days on other bikes using the same config.
(Then I bought expensive gloves with batteries  . . . until one burnt a half-crown sied hole in the back of my right hand, whose scar is still visible 2 years later. Never again - that hurt, a lot!)

Rex' point is well-made, but 25 years of DVRs on standard dyns running at 12v, and 10+ years before that using an early JG device, makes me reasonably comfortable that nothing too terrible is going to happen. Yes, a few revisits to the dyns, owing to mechanical mayhem once or twice, and wires off the comm in another, but given the mileage, I'm not whining. Never had a field coil melt down though.
I also had the wires fail at the comm on a '12v' armature, and it really and truly hadn't been overloaded as you have to respect that 5A rating pretty carefully. Never knew why that one died, but there we go.

I expect the cost of the lot of it over a quarter of a century is coming up to about the cost of an Alton  . . . but I promise myself I WILL get one of them one of these days just to see. No good being one-eyed about these things!
Bill