Electronic ignition

[Ewen]

Good evening gentleman (and others)
My 56 Gold Flash is hard to start and I think it's the magneto.
Has anyone installed electronic ignition and if so would you recommend it?

[Radlan2]

I have had one of the first Trispark ignitions on my T160 since they first came out and it has been a brilliant improvement. So I bought one of their units for a "special" A10 I was building using the early commando type points distributor, I have now gone back to a magneto which seems to suit the bike much better. spend your cash on a quality magneto refurb and you will not regret it in my opinion.

[Triton Thrasher]

Why do you think “it’s the magneto?”

Have you cleaned and set the points?

The Wassell/Vape electronic ignition in a magneto replacement housing works well for me, but I have a 12 volt alternator.

[Catz]

I've fitted a 12 volt Boyer Bransden system and not had any problems, yet. All the electric components on my 1960 GF have been converted to 12 volt, I think that's needed for it all to work properly.
I'm sure loads of members have converted to 12volt. I can't say if i regret the conversion or not because i never ran my bike on it's original 6 volts as i converted it as soon as i got it.

[muskrat]

G'day Ewen.
I've had Boyer in both my A's since the early 90's. Both on 12v with DVRII's. The only problem is if the dynamo gives up the ghost and voltage drops to 10v the ignition reverts to full advance making starting very difficult. A fully charged 4ah battery will run the bikes for about 1 hour.
The advantage of a magneto is you don't need a dynamo or battery to run the motor.
Cheers

[Rex]

Stick with a rebuilt reliable mag. Billions of hours-run don't lie...

[Superflash]

To do it properly, take 2nd mortgage on house. Put latest rendition of Trispark on my A10. Like Musky running DVL II. after converting to 12v. Old dyno struggled to keep up, so $900 later, fitted flash harry 12v one. Runs like a rocket now but bloody expensive way of doing it.

[RichardL]

Today’s 50-mile ride was another testament to my 70-year-old K2F. The only real work done on it has been EasyCap, new bearings, new points, new insulating gasket and remagnetization, and I did not have to pay anyone for that labor, as it was all DIY (thanks to a local magnet supplier who was interested enough in my project to volunteer the use of one of his magnetizers).

Richard L

[CheeserBeezer]

Obviously I'm biased as I run a magneto refurb business. I can't understand why anybody would fit electronic ignition if using the bike in a normal day-to-day way. The obvious advantage of a magneto is it is a stand-alone ignition system so it doesn't matter what other problems you may have with the electrics and the magneto will get you home. When these bikes were new they ran perfectly well for many years on the original magneto. Nowadays, the quality of insulation and capacitors is better than original, so a proper refurb should see the magneto returned to 'as good as new' condition. OK, we're dealing with old stuff so, occasionally, things will go wrong, but most reputable magneto restorers give an unconditional two-year warranty. The cost of a refurb is i.r.o £300 which is probably a bit more than electronic ignition but there are lots of different electronic kits on the market, each with their idiosyncrasies and some requiring the additional cost of 12v conversion. The reason magnetos have a reputation (amongst some) for unreliability is because the service life of a magneto, when new was about 15 years, depending upon mileage covered. Most magnetos which pass through my workshop have never been refurbished, consequently they have become unreliable and caused frustration, but this is because owners are trying to run them 50 years beyond their service life! You wouldn't expect that of anything else, so why expect it of a magneto?! Maintaining a magneto is fairly simple; check the points annually, keep the earth track and slip ring clean and that's about it, provided the magneto has been restored properly. Anecdotally, our club rode to Assen last year. There were about six A10's on the trip and we covered a combined mileage of about 2500 miles. The only bike we had a problem with was the A10 with electronic ignition which stopped due to a loose wire somewhere in the loom! On inspection, there were lots of nasty, crimped, wires around the ignition coil which looked messy and led to the failure. When traveling in a large group and for long distance we take a spare magneto with us, which can be changed in about 45 minutes at the side of the road if necessary, though, in 20 years of being part of our club, we've never had to do that.

[RichardL]

Well, CB has reminded me that my DIY magneto work also included replacement of slip ring, earthing brush, pickup brushes and holders.  I think I might just be lucky. Based on what I’ve read (some from CB, I believe), it seems likely that there would be some extent of winding leakage, however, since starting the bike from warm these days is about three kicks (versus one, from cold), I’m taking that as acceptable. I suppose the continued usability of my mag may be due to less than 15,000 miles on it since I bought the bike in 1973. NOTHING here should be taken as me comparing or debating magneto knowledge or service skills with CB. He is a guru ji . If my work on the mag gets to the point of useless, you bet I’’m getting professional help. I suppose the mag could go in a suitcase and get through UK customs.

Richard L.

[Ewen]

G'day Ewen.
I've had Boyer in both my A's since the early 90's. Both on 12v with DVRII's. The only problem is if the dynamo gives up the ghost and voltage drops to 10v the ignition reverts to full advance making starting very difficult. A fully charged 4ah battery will run the bikes for about 1 hour.
The advantage of a magneto is you don't need a dynamo or battery to run the motor.
Cheers

Very interesting. Thanks for that.

[Ewen]

Obviously I'm biased as I run a magneto refurb business. I can't understand why anybody would fit electronic ignition if using the bike in a normal day-to-day way. The obvious advantage of a magneto is it is a stand-alone ignition system so it doesn't matter what other problems you may have with the electrics and the magneto will get you home. When these bikes were new they ran perfectly well for many years on the original magneto. Nowadays, the quality of insulation and capacitors is better than original, so a proper refurb should see the magneto returned to 'as good as new' condition. OK, we're dealing with old stuff so, occasionally, things will go wrong, but most reputable magneto restorers give an unconditional two-year warranty. The cost of a refurb is i.r.o £300 which is probably a bit more than electronic ignition but there are lots of different electronic kits on the market, each with their idiosyncrasies and some requiring the additional cost of 12v conversion. The reason magnetos have a reputation (amongst some) for unreliability is because the service life of a magneto, when new was about 15 years, depending upon mileage covered. Most magnetos which pass through my workshop have never been refurbished, consequently they have become unreliable and caused frustration, but this is because owners are trying to run them 50 years beyond their service life! You wouldn't expect that of anything else, so why expect it of a magneto?! Maintaining a magneto is fairly simple; check the points annually, keep the earth track and slip ring clean and that's about it, provided the magneto has been restored properly. Anecdotally, our club rode to Assen last year. There were about six A10's on the trip and we covered a combined mileage of about 2500 miles. The only bike we had a problem with was the A10 with electronic ignition which stopped due to a loose wire somewhere in the loom! On inspection, there were lots of nasty, crimped, wires around the ignition coil which looked messy and led to the failure. When traveling in a large group and for long distance we take a spare magneto with us, which can be changed in about 45 minutes at the side of the road if necessary, though, in 20 years of being part of our club, we've never had to do that.

Hmm. Very interesting.  Thank you.
I don't know if anyone in NZ refurbishes mags anymore.
Is this correct...
That would entail...
Rewind armature
New condenser.
New bearings
New cam ring
New slipping if necessary

How much would it cost?

[Ewen]

Why do you think “it’s the magneto?”

Have you cleaned and set the points?

The Wassell/Vape electronic ignition in a magneto replacement housing works well for me, but I have a 12 volt alternator.

Thank you for your response.

Yes I have cleaned and set the points. 4thou gap difference
Carb is spotless. Correct jets, slide. Needle position 3 ( middle)

Runs with good power sometimes so mechanically okay.
Temperamental starting but was running okay

Is spitting back and popping. Bit of back firing.
Some cut out under load on my hill.
Would die sometimes coming off idle.
One pot dropping out for a few seconds occasionally.
Seems to have decent spark at plugs but seems unusually constant and a bit red/yellow rather than the usual less frequent bigger blue spark.

Pretty sure no air leak.

[RichardL]

CB mentioned about 300 GBP. Not sure if it’s cheaper based on reusable components, or if the warranty requires the “All In” approach. I’m guessing he’ll clarify when he wakes up tomorrow.

Richard L.

[CheeserBeezer]

CB mentioned about 300 GBP. Not sure if it’s cheaper based on reusable components, or if the warranty requires the “All In” approach. I’m guessing he’ll clarify when he wakes up tomorrow.

Richard L.

£250 gets you a new armature fitted and remagnetisation. Most K2F's require an oil seal, maybe a slip ring which takes you to about £300. There's often a few other little bits and pieces which need faffing about with, so you're heading towards £325. The majority of invoices for mag rebuilds come in around £300, some a bit more, some a bit less. The most expensive mag i've evr done was about £375. I can supply a rebuilt mag off the shelf for less than that! The warranty applies to any work I've done. Sometimes a mag will turn up which has been refurbished previously. In this case I give the customer the option to retain the existing armature if it seems to be working OK. If that armature fails I will refurb again and only charge for the cost of the armature. I wouldn't charge the labour cost twice. I always speak to customers before commencing work to establish a clear understanding of what they want, based on my advice, and what the warranty covers if I'm only doing a partial job. I don't do work which is completely unnecessary. For example, in many cases, the existing bearings are fine.
Prices are here..... https://sites.google.com/site/priorymagnetos/services