Author Topic: 1957 A-10 Spitfire Scrambler rebuild thread  (Read 4913 times)

Offline snowbeard

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1957 A-10 Spitfire Scrambler rebuild thread
« on: 23.08. 2007 20:02 »
Hello, made my intro here: http://www.a7a10.net/forum/index.php?topic=281

Some of my first questions will be about what badges my bike wants.  I would like to get the closest ones, but reproductions are within my limits.

I also think I need some of the carbon or tungsten magneto brushes. one is good, but one is nearly gone...

and if you see things that are not original or are original on my bike please feel free to comment!! I need any and all help I can get!
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\'57 BSA A-10 Spitfire Scrambler
Spitfire Starting Video
\1960 Super Rocket (basket)
\1981 Suzi GS650
\1988 BMW K100LT in Lisbon!!

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Offline snowbeard

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Re: 1959 A-10 Super Rocket rebuild thread
« Reply #1 on: 23.08. 2007 22:05 »
any suggestions for the proper guage wire to replace these?  should it be strands or solid? 

Thanks!
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\'57 BSA A-10 Spitfire Scrambler
Spitfire Starting Video
\1960 Super Rocket (basket)
\1981 Suzi GS650
\1988 BMW K100LT in Lisbon!!

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Offline a10gf

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Re: 1959 A-10 Super Rocket rebuild thread
« Reply #2 on: 23.08. 2007 23:37 »
You have some work coming up  ;) Maybe start with getting some books if you do not already have them, and evaluate how far you want to go into the restoration. Look for the a10 \ bsa books by roy bacon on ebay, amazon etc or from any british bike parts dealer, and a parts book and service manual for your model.  Make a plan, do you just want a runner or something good for show display.

E.

A10 GF '53 My A10 website
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Offline fido

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Re: 1959 A-10 Super Rocket rebuild thread
« Reply #3 on: 24.08. 2007 07:54 »
any suggestions for the proper guage wire to replace these?  should it be strands or solid? 

Thanks!

Are you referring to the wiring in the wiring loom? The original wiring would be something like 2.5 square millimetre stranded. If you get a photocopy of the BSA Service Sheets, the wiring diagram  should tell you the correct colours to get. There are new looms available but the ones I've seen have been poor quality.

Offline snowbeard

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Re: 1959 A-10 Super Rocket rebuild thread
« Reply #4 on: 27.08. 2007 17:20 »
whoops, forgot I made this one... *red*

So, Fido, any wires that pass near the engine under the tank are toast. the fire fried the insulation, so I need to replace a lot of that.

OVERALL RUNNING?
One big question that has been in my mind is how much of the wiring do I need to replace just to fire up the engine?  will it run with simply the magneto to the plugs and gas and oil replaced?    maybe disconnect the generator (if it even functions)?

OIL?
so in reference to draining the oil in everything, would there be a good flush to do as well?  I'd really rather not have to split the cases, but I bet it's nasty in there...  course I'd hate to dislodge anything into the running parts either... 

any suggestions for oil? Is it anything special?  on my suzi with the wet clutch I have to avoid the newer synthetics or risk the plates.  anything like that on these?   

and how about filtering it? what would I need for a filter? 

and so the barrage begins...
__________________
\'57 BSA A-10 Spitfire Scrambler
Spitfire Starting Video
\1960 Super Rocket (basket)
\1981 Suzi GS650
\1988 BMW K100LT in Lisbon!!

=

Offline snowbeard

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YES YES YES YES YES YES!!!!
« Reply #5 on: 28.08. 2007 01:25 »
I HAVE A BIG, BRIGHT, BEAUTIFUL BLUE SPARK ON BOTH PLUGS!!! 

nothing could be sweeter today than that.  except maybe knowing what oil to put in the oil tank... I have a sneaking suspicion I could hear the very first grumble by the weekend if I get time to play...

does the chaincase get it's oil from the tank as well, or does it need it's very own, and is it the same as the tank?

I cleaned up the carb a little already, it slides well now, and I think will flow cleanly.  I didn't take the two extremely important jet assembly apart, as my "instruction manual" said it was not to be taken lightly by novices  ;)

so I could get a new throttle cable or even just start with the old one, its pretty tatty, but may work for a dry run gassing!!
__________________
\'57 BSA A-10 Spitfire Scrambler
Spitfire Starting Video
\1960 Super Rocket (basket)
\1981 Suzi GS650
\1988 BMW K100LT in Lisbon!!

=

Offline a10gf

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Re: 1959 A-10 Super Rocket rebuild thread
« Reply #6 on: 28.08. 2007 02:18 »
 *smile* understand your joy. Should be no problem to use any 40 monograde (30 or 50 ok as well depending of ambient temp) you can find, preferably with no detergeant until you have stripped the engine and cleaned up the internals (to avoid sludge loosening and wanting to block oil passages). The chaincase needs it's own oil, same as engine, 50 is good, leaks slower...

At first startup, watch for healthy oil return into the tank! And carefull with petrol leaks, do not let enthusiasm burn up the bike *ex* *smile*

For some info see here: http://www.a7a10.net/instruction.htm  manual for wrong year, but gives you an idea about many parts of the A10.

A10 GF '53 My A10 website
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Offline snowbeard

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Re: 1959 A-10 Super Rocket rebuild thread
« Reply #7 on: 28.08. 2007 04:34 »
thank you very much, you're entirely right.   *red*

I have already compiled and printed the instruction manual from this site, it is quite helpful altho I have not read it cover to cover yet...


so would opening the sludge trap be a good or bad idea if that was all I did?  can I just drop it, clean it, wipe around the edges and replace it safely? or should it really only be done when opening things up.  it sounds like there's a filter in there too? should I pull it and clean it in petrol as per the manual? *smiley4*

I did find that most of the oil on the bottom is from the chaincase, which is full just under the lower wrap of chain.  the manual points to screws A and B respectively as the level and drain screws, should I just pull out the higher of them and see if it's full to there?  (man it helps to read the manual, eh?!)

I will try feeding the carb off the bike first methinks, then if it holds I'll take it near her again...

here're my new plug wires!

Shot at 2007-08-27
__________________
\'57 BSA A-10 Spitfire Scrambler
Spitfire Starting Video
\1960 Super Rocket (basket)
\1981 Suzi GS650
\1988 BMW K100LT in Lisbon!!

=

Offline LJ.

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Re: 1959 A-10 Super Rocket rebuild thread
« Reply #8 on: 28.08. 2007 09:35 »

A big welcome to our forum Snowbeard! I must firstly say how very much I like your enthusiasm towards your A10 bike.... But that is to be expected because anyone here will tell you it is a fine machine! Now don't go burning up that enthusiasm too quickly, try to take one step at a time. There isn't really much to do to the engine, if its running, sounds good. Certainly, renewing the toasted wiring would be a good idea but make sure the 'stop engine' wire is replaced first! You might just need it in an emergency.

Don't worry about the sludge trap just yet. Just be sure to have good, new, clean oil in there and do a regular change. Good news about the blue sparks from the magneto, but do you get the same strong blue sparks when the engine has been running for some time and Magneto is hot? Lets hope so.

Five years ago I did not know the first thing about motorbikes let alone the A10, I have learn a heck of a lot since then! Boy! I now own two running A10s!
Ride Safely Lads! LJ.
**********************
1940 BSA M20 500cc Girder/Rigid- (SOLD)
1947 BSA M21 600cc Girder/Rigid-Green
1949 BSA A7   500cc Girder/Plunger Star Twin-(SOLD)
1953 BSA B33  500cc Teles/Plunger-Maroon
1961 BSA A10  650cc Golden Flash-Blue
1961 BSA A10  650cc Golden Flash-Red

Offline fido

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Re: 1959 A-10 Super Rocket rebuild thread
« Reply #9 on: 28.08. 2007 09:42 »
The sludge trap is inside the crankshaft so it would need a total stripdown to clean it out. I've never done this on my A7 as it was bought in running condition, about 12 years ago. Whether you strip the engine at this stage is up to you. If you think the bike was neglected and poorly maintained, with infrequent oil changes it would be the safest policy. If it was well looked after and does not show signs of bodging or butchery you could get away with running without stripping. You should still do a bit of servicing, things like valve clearances, points gap, ignition timing, check the clutch, primary chain, brakes etc. It would be a good idea to remove the primary chain cover as there may be a pile of broken rollers in there. It is also worth stripping off the clutch plates and filing burrs off the clutch plate tenons. Similarly, if the surfaces of the clutch basket are grooved  by the plate tenons, they can be filed smooth.
I'm not sure about using flushing oil on an engine without proper filtration. It might be safer to just remove the oil tank and give that a good clean out with kerosene or some such. You can always change the oil again after your first few hundred miles if you think there is sludge build up. One place to check for this would be the rocker gear. If the rockers are thickly coated in sludge then a full stripdown would be best. These bikes do tend to lose gearbox oil as there are no seals on the gear lever or kickstart lever shafts.
As you have discovered, the bike will run without any wiring apart from the magneto HT leads. The kill button is a useful safety feature in case the throttle ever sticks open. At a show last weekend I saw an A7 in scrambles trim which is used on the road but has no lights, dynamo or wiring, just a rubber bulb horn.

Offline snowbeard

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Re: 1959 A-10 Super Rocket rebuild thread
« Reply #10 on: 28.08. 2007 18:25 »
thanks again, I will definitely take some time to sort thru it before I decide to ride it any distance, I am just overly excited to get it to roll down the block under it's own power, that will be the inspiration to go further I think.

Now the bad news (or is it?)  I don't think the fellow selling this knew for sure what it was, but had a better guess than I?  The Frame has a CA7A ### stamp on it, while the engine has a CA10SR ###.  I believe this means it is a 1958 A10 Spitfire Scrambler, no?  but the tin is all chromed, not painted red like the history of the 58 says here: ( http://www.leespeedracing.com/history.htm )

I'm using this guide:  http://www.bsaoc.demon.co.uk/1951-60.html 

I wonder if this is good or bad, as to it's value...  I'm not looking to flip it for profit yet, but I'd like to verify that I didn't get fully ripped off, no?  *conf*
__________________
\'57 BSA A-10 Spitfire Scrambler
Spitfire Starting Video
\1960 Super Rocket (basket)
\1981 Suzi GS650
\1988 BMW K100LT in Lisbon!!

=

Offline Pollock

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Re: 1959 A-10 Super Rocket rebuild thread
« Reply #11 on: 29.08. 2007 03:13 »
Yes, spitfire scrambler is very good news if you are planning on resale. You have a matching motor and frame...because BSA I don't believe ever matched frame # with engine. This is also good.  Hope this helps you.
Pollock

Offline snowbeard

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Re: 1957/58 A-10 Spitfire Scrambler rebuild thread
« Reply #12 on: 01.09. 2007 02:52 »
oh boy!! I got it started this evening!!  got a new float bowl seal and it held nicely, so I put it on and plugged in the wires. I cleaned out the oil tank last night, 50 years of sludge in there, yikes!  filled up the oil and pushed it down to the street. 

got the kitchen fire extinguisher, attached a wire to the kill contact and started jumping on 'er!  After many cranks and a few fills from the auxillary tank I'm using, I started to wonder if I had the plugs on backwards, or if I needed to do anything but tickle it.  so I turned the small knurled spring loaded knob in slightly, kicked it again and it fired right up!!!  ran pretty well at idle, but I didn't even try to rev it any, I'm happy to hear the rumble, I've wondered what this bike would sound like for a couple weeks now!

I couldn't have been prouder if I'd birthed the damn thing myself!!

the oil was flowing from the return so I'm pretty happy there, it was a little bubbly but having drained it entirely I should expect some of that. I'll keep an eye on it no less.

the kill worked too, luckily enough.  I need to disconnect the generator and get a new clutch cable and I think I can get away with riding down the street! 

off for the weekend, you all enjoy yourselves!!
__________________
\'57 BSA A-10 Spitfire Scrambler
Spitfire Starting Video
\1960 Super Rocket (basket)
\1981 Suzi GS650
\1988 BMW K100LT in Lisbon!!

=

Offline fido

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Re: 1957/58 A-10 Spitfire Scrambler rebuild thread
« Reply #13 on: 01.09. 2007 08:12 »
Great  *smile* Bubbly oil is good, the return side of the pump has greater capacity than the flow side so it should be pumping all the oil from the sump plus some air.

Offline LJ.

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Re: 1957/58 A-10 Spitfire Scrambler rebuild thread
« Reply #14 on: 01.09. 2007 09:01 »

Excellent! I like to hear these stories..... I bet your smile met right round at the back of your head! Fantastic! your now probably hooked!  *smile* *lol*
Ride Safely Lads! LJ.
**********************
1940 BSA M20 500cc Girder/Rigid- (SOLD)
1947 BSA M21 600cc Girder/Rigid-Green
1949 BSA A7   500cc Girder/Plunger Star Twin-(SOLD)
1953 BSA B33  500cc Teles/Plunger-Maroon
1961 BSA A10  650cc Golden Flash-Blue
1961 BSA A10  650cc Golden Flash-Red