Author Topic: well I'm in and there's no turning back now...  (Read 2510 times)

Offline snowbeard

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just pulled the tranny cover that holds the kickstart and gear change lever on my 57 A10 spitfire.  I've highlighted my primary questions in red for the benefit of those who don't like too much information.

there was water in the oil, light green sludge.  One question is how should I "flush" this out?  I don't actually plan to take apart the gearbox, nor do I want to remove it entirely, so can I flush out the gearbox with kerosene?  WD40?  can I just spray a bunch in there and let it drain thru the small hole that connects the two spaces?

my cogs are worn on the gear that turns against the kicker, obvious even to me.  the kicker gear is in better shape, but is missing the first tooth and the second is the most worn, so it all starts off misaligned...  can anyone help me with a part number for either or both? do they even sell the inner one as a part? or do you have to replace all those little teeth?


tranny side


kicker side



lastly, I've seen the kicker arm pin assembly on eBay and heard they are often buggered up removing them, how hard should they be to get out?  I got mine a bit started, but stopped because I realized it came off with the cover. but to get the new cog on I'd have to pull it...

thanks!!
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\'57 BSA A-10 Spitfire Scrambler
Spitfire Starting Video
\1960 Super Rocket (basket)
\1981 Suzi GS650
\1988 BMW K100LT in Lisbon!!

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Offline dpaddock

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Re: well I'm in and there's no turning back now...
« Reply #1 on: 01.10. 2007 02:20 »
A kerosene flush should do just fine.

You need to get a Spares List. Go to the Brit Bike Forum and see that there is a site where you can get the List on CD.

The worn gear is "Kickstart Ratchet Pinion" p/n 67-3376, and is a normal wear item. Klempf's and others will have a replacement.

The sector gear is "Kickstart Crank Spindle Assembly" p/n 42-3160. The first tooth and part of the second tooth are partial to facilitate engagement. Yours looks OK.

I don't understand the piece(s) involved in your last question. If you'll find the p/n(s), we can probably help.
David
'57 Spitfire


Offline snowbeard

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Re: well I'm in and there's no turning back now...
« Reply #2 on: 01.10. 2007 03:16 »
that's great to hear I only need the one, thanks!!

here's what I was talking about with the cotter pin on the kickstart arm





http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2-NEW-TRIUMPH-BSA-KICKSTART-COTTERS-OR-RETAINERS_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ35623QQihZ007QQitemZ170152456203QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

I cut a cross in the end and used a punch to drive it this far to help me from pounding on the threads, but there may not be a need to remove it now.  is there anything to do to help seal the kickstart, or does it just always leak a bit?

I should get a parts list, and I will, but it's nice to get some reassurance from people who know this stuff, I would've bought both gears thinking those two were broken. 

I do need the spring tho, but that I can find myself.

Thanks again!!!
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\'57 BSA A-10 Spitfire Scrambler
Spitfire Starting Video
\1960 Super Rocket (basket)
\1981 Suzi GS650
\1988 BMW K100LT in Lisbon!!

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Offline fido

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Re: well I'm in and there's no turning back now...
« Reply #3 on: 01.10. 2007 08:31 »
The kickstart and gear lever shafts do leak oil but it is possible to machine grooves in the holes of the outer cover to retain O rings. Looks like you can get the quadrant and gear from specialists over there but if not, try these people:
BSA bits

Offline LJ.

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Re: well I'm in and there's no turning back now...
« Reply #4 on: 01.10. 2007 09:04 »

Nice to see the pictures and to see that your really getting stuck in! Well done... If your reasonably mechanically competent then you'll get along just fine. Only four years ago I did not know the first thing in motorcycle mechanics, I think the thing is to enjoy it. I certainly am!

Like Fido says...
Quote
The kickstart and gear lever shafts do leak oil
Mine are just the same here and I found that a nice thick oil in the gear box helps, probably the lazy way. Them cotter pins are pigs! I use a big hammer.  *eek*
Ride Safely Lads! LJ.
**********************
1940 BSA M20 500cc Girder/Rigid- (SOLD)
1947 BSA M21 600cc Girder/Rigid-Green
1949 BSA A7   500cc Girder/Plunger Star Twin-(SOLD)
1953 BSA B33  500cc Teles/Plunger-Maroon
1961 BSA A10  650cc Golden Flash-Blue
1961 BSA A10  650cc Golden Flash-Red

Offline snowbeard

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Re: well I'm in and there's no turning back now...
« Reply #5 on: 01.10. 2007 22:42 »
that's good to know about the kickstart leaking, I may try to make a seal for it.

and Leigh's has a lot of parts!! sweet!

I did find the part # at Raber's for ~$60, I'll see where else I might find it, but I wonder if it might be alright to use it anyway.  looking again at the gears, they seem fine deep inside with just the tips worn off.  the return spring on the kicker has been broken for who know's how long, and when I did get it started it would grind or buzz something awful if I didn't pull it back up and secure it (which I did figure out quickly, so I don't think I'm fully responsible for the wear)

I get good connection with it from about 10:00 thru the kick... (kicker up to the left if looking at the right side of the bike)  is that about right?

I don't mean to half ass anything, but it seems like if it starts and hasn't caused any wear on the kick gear, maybe I'm ok since that's the only time it is in use...? 

I'm kinda trying for the "ride it a year and then decide the relationship I'll have" per RFWhatley on the britbike board.  ;)  so the ride it would be the hard part here...


I got my Suzi about five years ago with absolutely no experience. at this point I'm pretty confident that if they make my parts still, and you guys can tell me what it is, I can fix it.  *respect*

Thanks again!!!

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\'57 BSA A-10 Spitfire Scrambler
Spitfire Starting Video
\1960 Super Rocket (basket)
\1981 Suzi GS650
\1988 BMW K100LT in Lisbon!!

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Offline snowbeard

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Re: well I'm in and there's no turning back now...
« Reply #6 on: 02.10. 2007 05:03 »
jeez, getting cocky already *red*

well things went well this evening, got the rachet off with little issue, had to put it in gear and wedge the brake, but nicely its not hydraulic so I didn't worry about leaving it for any period I had to.  the rachet's pretty worn beyond just the tips, so I will try to replace it for sure.   


Shot at 2007-10-01

also, the copper bushing... it looks like it's fairly worn in the middle, so it would be nice to replace, but the groove around it?  is that for oil flow out to the rachet?  at first I thought the spring got bound in there and wore it, but it looks machined.



on the kickstart lever, I finally got the cotter out, boy that thing was jammed!!  it has warped the hole so badly I had to file it down to slip the bushing, I wonder if I could put a weld in that groove to fill it with my 110v...?  you can see where the cotter also warped to fit the hole.



a couple of teeth were chipped, but just the edges. it looks specially hardened so I'm hesitant to try to even soften the edges with a file...



well, off to the local fellow to tap the clutch inspection cover, and see if might have any of my parts and gaskets...

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\'57 BSA A-10 Spitfire Scrambler
Spitfire Starting Video
\1960 Super Rocket (basket)
\1981 Suzi GS650
\1988 BMW K100LT in Lisbon!!

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Offline fido

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Re: well I'm in and there's no turning back now...
« Reply #7 on: 02.10. 2007 07:50 »
Yes, the spiral groove in the bush is  there to hold  oil . You will find the same thing in other bushes on the bike. In some cases, it is important fit these bushes the correct way round as the groove goes right round to one edge but stops short of the other edge, to prevent it from forming a little oil pump. It should be OK to build up the kickstart shaft groove with weld and file it back to shape. It looks like the kickstart has been operated with the cottarpin not fully tightened. The BSA kickstart mechanism is prone to jamming, I've had this with all 3 bikes I've owned ('59 A7SS, '54 B31 and '48 A7) although I must admit, I've just put up with it and have not tried renewing parts. When it sticks I just pull the clutch lever in and give the kickstart a sharp tap with my boot. ;)

Online groily

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Re: well I'm in and there's no turning back now...
« Reply #8 on: 02.10. 2007 10:08 »
Fido's dead right - I've only ever had two A10s, 30 years apart, but both suffer(ed) from occasional kickstart jamming, cos they all seem to. And the cotter pins have always been Bs to get out - I use a big hammer too with a spare (and expendable)  nut on to get it started. The sharp prod with clutch lifted usually does the unjamming trick. My current one does it - and with a quadrant and associated bits that look a lot better than the ones in the pics. If it all works, no reason not to use for time being IMHO - the bits are dead easy to get at as you now know if you do decide to replace later on when the nature of the man-and-beast relationship has settled! Mine also weeps oil from the shafts - I use a well-pre-stirred up mix of gear oil and light grease in all my Brit gearboxes, and it seems to reduce leaks without wrecking anything (touch wood). Couldn't be bothered when redoing my box last month to machine up grooves etc for oil seals/O rings, work out other cures, cos it's not a great big problem for daily-use not very shiny bikes. Good luck! Groily
Bill

Offline snowbeard

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Re: well I'm in and there's no turning back now...
« Reply #9 on: 05.10. 2007 21:20 »
well I got lucky and found the area dealer's son in Ft Collins, CO!  an old fellow at a truck stop got started talking and he told me about Acme Machine Shop.  Turns out the son of the original BSA dealer still runs the place, and they still stock a few parts, have access to good sources, but best of all, they make replacement parts!!!!

so I got an NOS kickstart spring and a fresh new, made in sept of 07 rachet pinion gear!  not the best price in the world, but not the worst either.  I put it all back together, along with cutting a new gasket, two days back.  filled it with gear oil and haven't even seen it soak thru the paper gasket yet!! (fingers crossed)

tapped out the cover screw holes with a 7mm 1.0 tap because both had been stripped.  the tap was what a local brit bike repair guy had on hand, the next WW size would have been too large for the cover holes to be drilled, so we did the metric thing.  now my problem is that I can't find a grade 8 (black hardened) allen head bolt!!  I did get a grade 5 steel bolt with hex head, and a small aluminum hobby tube which I used to create a spacer, since the hex head won't fit the recess of the inspection cover holes, but with the spacer it clears the cover and the kicker.

Got a battery while I was up north, couldn't find my B39-6 anywhere but Denver, and the shop was closed by five weekdays and noon on saturdays, just couldn't make it down there. 

If I can get a cover on the brakelight, I think I'm ready to head for the DMV!!!  yee haw!  I'll be tinkering some more this weekend in hopes of getting it there on monday!!

thanks for all the help so far, I'm sure Im far from done, but definitely excited about it still!!!

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\'57 BSA A-10 Spitfire Scrambler
Spitfire Starting Video
\1960 Super Rocket (basket)
\1981 Suzi GS650
\1988 BMW K100LT in Lisbon!!

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Offline snowbeard

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Re: well I'm in and there's no turning back now...
« Reply #10 on: 08.10. 2007 06:00 »
well here're the two rachets, one new and one old.  Thanks to Acme Machine.



got out for a good 15-20 minute ride today, some small uphills, she pulls quite well and seems strong in the low end torque.  maybe it's lighter from all the crud I've knocked off!






I get a bit of "surging" but I don't mean from the engine, it seems to be in the transmission somehow, maybe either the primary or the drive chains being too slack?  how much play should each chain have?   can I check the primary tension sufficiently thru the inspection

it could be from the clutch, I haven't had that apart yet either.  I notice it in second the most, at higher revs, I notice it in first as well, but haven't noticed it in third, but I may just have not had it going fast enough to get the chain flapping!

I also got the battery hooked up, and all the lights still work, the tail bulb was an easy replacement from NAPA for a change  ;)  now I just need the lens. 

the generator puts out quite a good power, up to as high as 17V measured at the battery while reving the engine gently, high, but slowly and steadily.  the numbers jumped around from 12 to as high as 20 at higher spikes.  does this sound like a faulty regulator, or is it supposed to do that..?

changed the handlebars to something lower, it actually makes it much easier to ride! almost fits my six foot frame perfectly...
 *whistle*
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\'57 BSA A-10 Spitfire Scrambler
Spitfire Starting Video
\1960 Super Rocket (basket)
\1981 Suzi GS650
\1988 BMW K100LT in Lisbon!!

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Offline fido

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Re: well I'm in and there's no turning back now...
« Reply #11 on: 08.10. 2007 07:59 »
Looks like you are making good progress  *smile*
It sounds like the regulator isn't regulating. If you take the cover off you can clean the contacts with medium wet & dry. There is a resistor in the regulator that goes in series with the dynamo field coil to reduce the output. The regulator  contains a relay which shorts out this resistor when not energised but removes the short when a certain voltage is reached. The other device in there is the cut-out, which disconnects the dynamo from the battery until a certain minimum charge voltage is reached. You can tell which one is the cut-out by briefly pressing the contacts together by hand with the engine not running. You will see the ammeter needle flick to the discharge side. Now you can check the operation of the regulator by running the engine with your voltmeter connected and holding the contacts closed by hand. When you do this the voltage should drop.

Offline Caretaker

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Re: well I'm in and there's no turning back now...
« Reply #12 on: 08.10. 2007 20:01 »
Hey SB, you are writing a new and complete "BSA Twin Restoration" book here *smile* Great reading, great pictures.

E.
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Offline snowbeard

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Re: well I'm in and there's no turning back now...
« Reply #13 on: 08.10. 2007 20:11 »
thanks for the info Fido, I'll give it a scratch this evening and see if it straightens out...

admin, I think I am writing a book, maybe I should compile all this sometime  ;)  really I just wanted to post pics of the insides since I don't find a lot of that anywhere, what I've learned, etc, for the collective.  This is a great forum, but not nearly as active as "that other one" not specific to A10 and A7's.  just trying to be a contributing member, eh?

as obsessed as I am right now, you guys are lucky I've been able to control my postings *eek*
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\'57 BSA A-10 Spitfire Scrambler
Spitfire Starting Video
\1960 Super Rocket (basket)
\1981 Suzi GS650
\1988 BMW K100LT in Lisbon!!

=