Author Topic: log book  (Read 2309 times)

Offline andy2565

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log book
« on: 16.08. 2010 18:01 »
my freind has a log book from the seventies for an a10,is there a way of checking if its still valid,because if it is i could use it for the bike i'm building,
near wolves uk,will keep riding as long as can stay upright,tribsa,tt500,2xJAP grasstrackers+jawa.gold flash.triumph metisse,and others.

Online lawnmowerman

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Re: log book
« Reply #1 on: 16.08. 2010 20:01 »


Andy I think you will need to have proof of ownership of the frame number shown in the log book, either by inspection at the local DVLA office or sometimes they request a rubbing of the frame number. Even if you have the frame number shown in the log book it is possible that the number was taken back by the DVLA when they computerised everything (in the early 80s I think) and has possibly been reissued as an age related number to someone else.
If you have no log book for your current frame (engine number does not matter) what you will have to do is:

-Get a dating certificate from the BSA OC

-Take the bike for an MOT when you have finished building it (you can get insurance if you need it from the frame number alone). Your MOT certificate will show the frame number rather than a reg number. You cannot drive the bike legally to or from the MOT station.

-Apply to DVLA for a reg no. They may ask to see the bike at the local DVLA office. Again you cannot legally drive the bike to or from the DVLA office but you will need to send an insurance certificate with the application. If you are lucky they may trace the original number - if not they will issue an age related number. After a few weeks they will issue a reg number and authority to make numberplates which you will have to supply to whoever makes them up. Only then can you drive the bike legally on the road.

- After many further months they will issue the V5 which will be wrong in at least four areas despite you giving them all the correct information in first place and being inspected by one of their vehicle examiners. You then have to complain by email on the DVLA site and they will send you a corrected V5.

Don?t ask me how I know all this ? you will probably find the bike restoration a lot easier and definitely more enjoyable than the registration process.

Good luck

Jim
1959 A10 SR
1938 Wolseley 14/60
1955 Ferguson TEF20 tractor
1965 Ferguson 135 tractor
1952 Matchless G80 rigid
1960 BMW R60
1954 Matchless G80S
1955 Ariel 500 VH
1951 Sunbeam S7DL
1960 Matchless G12 with Watsonian Monza
......and loads of lawnmowers

Too old to Rock and Roll but too young to die  (Jethro Tull 1976)

Offline andy2565

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Re: log book
« Reply #2 on: 17.08. 2010 08:20 »
cheers for that,i've done the age related before,but i ddnt know that you could search online,i'll let you know how i get on.
near wolves uk,will keep riding as long as can stay upright,tribsa,tt500,2xJAP grasstrackers+jawa.gold flash.triumph metisse,and others.

Online lawnmowerman

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Re: log book
« Reply #3 on: 17.08. 2010 20:01 »
Hmmmm....... Not sure about re-stamping the frame. I am all for cutting through red tape and beaurocracy but what if someone, possibly a member of this very forum, has spent many years and a small fortune rebuilding a basket case using the original frame and then goes to register it using the number stamped on it.  *sad2*

Jim
1959 A10 SR
1938 Wolseley 14/60
1955 Ferguson TEF20 tractor
1965 Ferguson 135 tractor
1952 Matchless G80 rigid
1960 BMW R60
1954 Matchless G80S
1955 Ariel 500 VH
1951 Sunbeam S7DL
1960 Matchless G12 with Watsonian Monza
......and loads of lawnmowers

Too old to Rock and Roll but too young to die  (Jethro Tull 1976)

Offline andy2565

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Re: log book
« Reply #4 on: 17.08. 2010 20:54 »
i spoke to the dvla today and it seems its a bit of an open book,if i have documented proof of a vehicles history then i can regain the number,so if i restamped the frame,to the buff logbook i then have documented proof,but if someone has the original frame somewhere without documents then its not going to get accepted,who's to know if the original still exists ? but still its only the reg number that isnt on the dvla,they cant check if a chassis still exists.i'll do a bit more research seeing as the bike is still parts at the moment and i've got to finish my tribsa,
near wolves uk,will keep riding as long as can stay upright,tribsa,tt500,2xJAP grasstrackers+jawa.gold flash.triumph metisse,and others.

Offline A10Boy

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Re: log book
« Reply #5 on: 18.08. 2010 11:52 »
As far as I know it's illegal to restamp an engine or frame number under any circumstances. I wouldn't be very pleased if i went to register a rebuilt basket case to find that some criminal had cloned it.

The only way this would be even remotely excusable would be if you already owner the original frame and it was crashed and un usable. BSA issued un stamped frames to their agents back in the day for that very purpose.

I was talking to a chap from the GS owners club recently, he said they get people apply to join the club having bought a GS on ebay and find out that the frame - engine numbers of their new pride and joy already belong to club members.  *sad2*
Regards

Andy

1960 A10 - Black Golden Flash
Plus
1974 Kawasaki Z1a
Yam XJR 1300

Offline mikethebrush

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Re: log book
« Reply #6 on: 18.08. 2010 13:04 »
im with a10boy on this

ive felt uneasy about this thread but kept schtum as I dont know enough about this subject

what this amounts to is ringing and is a prisonable criminal offence

do you seriously think you can have a car and change the identity because a mate has an old logbook for the same model

bikes are no different

it becomes worse then if you try to sell on as you are then selling a ringer

dvla are fully aware of the situation regarding rebuilding old bikes, so have a system of  isssuing age related plates, theres a good chance you will get the original number for your frame if it has had a v5 issued at some point

in the old days you would have been issued a q plate
1959 BSA A7 SHOOTING STAR

Offline iansoady

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Re: log book
« Reply #7 on: 18.08. 2010 15:29 »
im with a10boy on this


Me too. The log book and chassis / frame belonmg together. You can't just renumber any old frame - the rules are quite specific on this, and as Mike says it is ringing and a criminal offence.

You need to re-register the bike you're building in its own right, either with its original reg if you have proof of that or an age related if not.

BSAOC and VMCC can help with dating.
Ian.
1962 Golden Flash (arrived)
1955 Velo Viper/Venom (departed)
2004 Triumph Tiger 955i (staying)

Offline mikethebrush

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Re: log book
« Reply #8 on: 18.08. 2010 17:17 »
Hi Dave

why the mr angry rant and who has accused you of ringing, not me and I cant find anyone else who has made alegations against you either

so chill and take a look at the original post

you suggested he restamped his frame to match his mates logbook, no scrapped or damaged frame mentioned, no mention of his mate handing over a matching frame to be cut up and disposed of


no one has accused you of ringing Dave but what your suggesting the original poster to do is to change the identity of his bike to match a spare logbook instead of legally obtaining a number from dvla

the consequences of this are not just that its illegal and a prisonable offence but his insurance would be void too, everytime he went for insurance he would have to declare he has a criminal record for altering the identity of a vehicle and has been refused insurance

I always stop and think before I push the post reply button
1959 BSA A7 SHOOTING STAR

Offline A10Boy

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Re: log book
« Reply #9 on: 18.08. 2010 18:22 »
Agree 100%.

Dave take a look at my post, I even mention re stamping a frame with a crashed  frames number

Quote
The only way this would be even remotely excusable would be if you already owned the original frame and it was crashed and un usable. BSA issued un stamped frames to their agents back in the day for that very purpose.

No ones accusing you of anything my friend, but perhaps you should read whats been posted before you go off on one.

As I understand the law, the number of the frame that you actually use on a rebuilt bike should be used, so if the frame is changed so is the number. If that means an age related so be it.

This has to be controlled tightly or we are all at risk of scumbags cloning our bikes.

Andy, as Lawnmowerman says, you will probably need to prove you own the frame.
Regards

Andy

1960 A10 - Black Golden Flash
Plus
1974 Kawasaki Z1a
Yam XJR 1300

Offline andy2565

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Re: log book
« Reply #10 on: 18.08. 2010 20:16 »
i guess i wont use it,i bought a 1960 ga10 chassis today so i wont need to,age related will do,spitfires were exported and wouldnt of had a reg plate i guess,
near wolves uk,will keep riding as long as can stay upright,tribsa,tt500,2xJAP grasstrackers+jawa.gold flash.triumph metisse,and others.

Offline Goldseeker

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Re: log book
« Reply #11 on: 18.08. 2010 21:00 »
i bought a 1960 ga10 chassis today

A 1960 GA10 frame  *conf*, in my book it says GA10's are RGS frames which were only made in 1962/1963 and like rocking horse poo - are you sure?

Spitfire frames were GA7A's.
Col.

RGS Rep.
Triumph Rocket 111 Classic
BSA Rocket 3 Mk1

Offline andy2565

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Re: log book
« Reply #12 on: 18.08. 2010 22:09 »
sorry my mistake i should have put ga7 ,and five numbers,i was intending on making a replicaand after this thread i dont think i'll be changing any numbers,cheers andy
near wolves uk,will keep riding as long as can stay upright,tribsa,tt500,2xJAP grasstrackers+jawa.gold flash.triumph metisse,and others.