Certificate of Conformity

[flipper]

Hello everybody,
I'm new to this Forum. I've just bought a BSA A10 Golden Flash. I am planning on taking it home with me to Italy. According to the Italian Motor Registration Department I need a certificate that shows all the technical data of my bike (frame number etc.)- I think it might be a Certificate of Conformity, but I'm not sure.  I can't find any information about this. Any advice?

Thanks so much!

[iansoady]

Where are you taking it from? If in the EU you should be able to get a V5C for it - local requirements vary but fairly straightforward (if a bit time consuming) in the UK.

Once you have a V5C which is the pan-EU registration document, transferring to another EU country should be feasible.

[flipper]

Hi Iansoady,
Thanks for your reply.
I'll be moving from the UK, where I bought the bike. I've got all the papers with me (VC5, Mot certificate and tax disk). Unfortunately the original registration log has gone missing.
Beside the documents mentioned above, in order to register the bike as a historical vehicle, I need to provide to the Italian Motor registration department this Certificate of conformity. Apparently it's not strictly indispensable but it would significantly speed up the otherwise long and bureaucratic process.
Any suggestions?

Thanks

[brackenfel]

Hi Flipper,
As Ian says a V5C is a pan-EU document. I've just received one for the B33 I bought recently. The format seems to have changed, it's now a shocking red colour on the front & clearly states "European Community" under the UK bit..

Maybe if the Italian authorities are concerned about its "historic" credentials a dating certificate from the BSAOC might help??

Just a thought...
Adrian

[Stephen Arsenal]

Hi,I had exactly the same problem,and this is maybe not the way to go.I live in germany and needed the certificate you need.DVLA swansea said just send any docs I have and they would issue me with the paperwork I needed.However they confiscated everything(although registered as not stolen) I sent,and told me because I live in germany,its their problem.the germans wanted the brittish docs.I spent ages trying to get the sides together (even offered to pay the telephone charges) but both the germans and Brits said it was the others responsibility to sort the paperwork out.Cost me a packet sending paperwork,staying on the line trying to get a voice from DVLA.Even a laywer could´nt help.EU at its best.
Anyway the only way was to register it in your country stating that there was NO paperwork what so ever,the numbers go into an EU database,when its not stolen(in your country ) you apply to register it.This takes about 4-5 weeks and then you become a certificate saying its not stolen(in your country) and then you can head on.
I was left speechless (and very angry) about this song and dance,good luck-its not so easy as it sounds,say hallo to Richard,Sandy,Micheal,Mat,Karen,Sue,sue(the other one)and a cast of thousands from DVLA swansea.

[groily]

Sometimes you have to love the French (which I do anyway). I have no idea if Italy runs a similar system, but I haven't yet had a major issue in France regarding the registration of 'vehicules de collection', ie old-ish and classic-ish. Reg doc or other proof of origin like dating cert from owners' club, sale note (must have), customs form if from ex-EU, personal tax exemption form obtained locally, once or twice a brass-rubbing of an engine or frame number, and then a bit of paper has always been forthcoming from the Federation of old jalopies saying whatever it is is OK to be registered. As a Vehicule de Collection - not as a standard modern thing, for which conformity data re lights, brakes, tyres, etc etc and other stuff would screw the process. Have now done that 9 times, with the tenth coming up any day.
I wonder if Italy has anything similar? A quick Google didn't come up with much bar classic Italian marques and their owners' clubs, but there may be a secondary route which by-passes a lot of the need to develop personal relationships with most of the people who live and work at DVLC.
Could also try BSAOC Italy I guess, if 'Mario' really exists, or any other classic club out there. I had enormous help from people in French classic/vintage clubs when I first started this paper trail.
Good luck!

[lawnmowerman]

And I thought the idea of the EU was to bring nations together and provide consistency to make things easier...............
My daughter in law is from Puglia (I think it is spelt that way) in the south of Italy and last time I was out there when I was discussing classic cars and bikes with her father he said that when a classic car or bike is registered it is only allowed to be used on the road in the region it is registered. Not sure if he was right and whether it will affect you when you move there.

Jim

[flipper]

Well,
thank you all for your help.
I'll be moving in a couple of weeks, so I'll soon be able to tell you how it goes with the new registration. I wish I could keep her old british number plates! They are so much nicer than the new ones.

Filippo

[groily]

Oh Yes, the joys of the EU! The only thing in common seems to be a preference for ensuring nothing is common!
The French had a similar system to the one you describe Jim, whereby a classic could only be used in the department it was registered in plus any other department with a common border - that gave me 5 departments and a good long range. To go further afield, you needed a bit of paper stamping, and it was meant to be for a rally or other qualifying event. But those rules have been changed now and there are no limits on circulation (which were honoured, frankly, in the breach only). Hard to tell on back roads what department (county if you like) one is in anyway. The downside is they speak of introducing by stages the equivalent of MOT tests. But so far no 2-wheeler has to be subjected to that indignity here. For moderns it'll come sooner rather than later I think (and not a bad thing looking at some of them not excluding my own), but for oldies, not sure. We are much assisted by our French Federation of Vehicles of the Epoch, which smooths the process of obtaining reg dox for a 50 Euro fee every time, coupled with an agreeable if belated French determination to preserve the patrimony. All classic and vintage clubs affiliate to this august body, which defends and preserves our interest quite well. How long it will last I don't know - but I'd say it was a good model for any country looking to provide sympathetic encouragement to classic vehicle owners. The logic being that classics don't do that many miles (they don't know some of us very well!) coupled with the fact they have very few accidents (which is true) and are generally reasonably well-maintained by proud owners (er, yes, maybe). Even when damaged they are usually fixed by their owners rather than via insurance arrangements. Thus it is possible to insure (basic cover) very inexpensively - and that's the only annual bureaucracy involved.
My shed walls are adorned with old GB and US number/licence plates - shame to lose them I know but it all makes for an interesting travel dossier and life history for a machine. I reckon it adds to rather than detracts from the history. I certainly wouldn't want to swap back to the joys of DVLC any time soon. For fairness' sake I should add I found the US registration system (in the state of Ohio at least) pretty reasonable too when I lived there for most of the 1990s.

[RichardL]

Since Groily has opened the topic of U.S. registrations, this might be interesting to some.

When I bought my bike, it was registered in California by the engine number, only. When I was incredibly stupid (2003, I like to think more stupid than I am now), I dumped my crashed original frame for a frame bought on eBay. In stripping the paint from the eBay frame, I noticed one number on the frame was stamped over another. EEEE! I called the Illinois vehicle department (for short, let's call it the "DMV") and spoke with the one lady who deals with awkward title situations such as this. I didn't want to proceed any further with a frame (and the rest of the parts) that could be confiscated out from under me. She offered to send DMV police to view the frame and make a judgment. Well, it turned out that, instead of DMV police showing up, it was two officers from the Illinois State Police, not in uniform. They were both riders and appreciated the project in the works. They viewed and recorded the frame number(s) and it was their opinion that it was probably a factory overstamping. I assume they couldn't really tell, but I was happy with their conclusion. The DMV got back to me advising that there was no record of the number(s) being associated with a stolen bike, so I was clear to register it. When it all came down, all I did was walk into the DMV with the California title and they issued a new Illinois title based, again, on the engine number only.

It may be amusing to learn, if you didn't know already know, that the previous Illinois governor at the time was sent to jail for, among a number of other things, selling truck-driver licenses through the DMV.

Richard L.