Author Topic: Voltage regulators  (Read 4072 times)

Online groily

  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Jul 2007
  • Posts: 1118
  • Karma: 18
    • www.brightsparkmagnetos.com
Voltage regulators
« on: 30.03. 2008 13:29 »
Bit of a plug (sorry), but anyone looking to upgrade or replace a mechanical CVC or an older style solid state one might like to look at Manor Technology's DVR2. Bit bigger than a matchbox so you get the toolbox back, wired to work for 6v or 12v by the non-attachment of one lead for the latter (and no need to change the field coil wiring in the dynamo as was necessary with some earlier boxes).  I've just put one on my A10 following the recommendation of a mate (electronics expert) who's fitted them to both his bikes recently and found a very marked improvement. Foolproof, with an excellent cut-out side which eliminates the typical 2A discharge at tickover from many other systems, balances the discharge of the headlight at lower rpm than some systems, and can cope with up to 15A, more than any E3 series dynamo, and works for Miller systems as well. Available in + or - earth. Arrived in France in a matter of days by airmail - 45 pounds sterling. See www.manortec.co.uk. The thing was designed for an A10 initially . . .  Groily
Good Advice
0
No reactions
Bill

Offline dpaddock

  • NC, USA
  • Valued Contributor
  • ****
  • Join Date: Jul 2006
  • Posts: 429
  • Karma: 5
Re: Voltage regulators
« Reply #1 on: 19.04. 2008 02:10 »
Thanks, Groily. Nice to have good hands-on advice.
Good Advice
0
No reactions
David
'57 Spitfire


Offline LJ.

  • Peterborough UK.
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2006
  • Posts: 1403
  • Karma: 15
  • The Red A10!
    • LJ's Website!
Re: Voltage regulators
« Reply #2 on: 19.04. 2008 11:08 »

That poor old Regulator... It seems to get so much stick waved at it!

I've a feeling that this could be another one of them long threads... And I think it deserves to be because most people seem to have difficulty with these components and usually end up plonking an electronic device inside that alloy housing instead. It?s understandable with the grief it can give, but I decided to mess around with mine.

Up until recently I was also in favour of replacing the mechanical Regulator with an electronic one? a V-Reg 11. All very well I thought but not very Classical.

Don?t get me wrong about electronics, I also am a keen user of an electronic Battery Status monitor, a clever little device that appears very accurate in its readings and tells me the state of charge and shows if there is an over charge or under charge. This I discovered to be an excellent companion for the old mechanical regulator more so than the 'obviously' reliable electronic Regulator that you just fit and forget.

The problem with electricity is that you cant see it, how much flow there is or if anything is flowing at all... Okay I hear you say... Use a voltmeter! Alright but with the Mechanical Regulator I had found that you need such small increments of electricity for example 7.4 volts... and with trying to start the bike and finding that heat generated in the windings in a very short space of time. The job soon becomes fiddly and difficult to do. On the other hand the Battery Status monitor soon shows if there is an overcharge by flashing red quite rapidly; don?t switch your lights on yet! A high output could be so much as to blow your bulbs. Simply turn the screw in or out on the back of the reg until the red flashing light turns to green, then you can turn on your lights, likely you will then see an immediate discharge on your ammeter the electronic device will also change colour. It is at this stage that you can tweak the mechanical regulator to put out that bit extra charge, especially if your using Halogen bulbs as I do. (Start all this with a fully charged battery) The thing to remember however is that this is all very well at working temperature, just don?t immediately start the bike on a very cold morning and straight away put on your lights, you must allow those regulator windings to warm up to enable the regulator to work at running temperature or you do run the risk of blowing your bulbs.

To sum this all up? I have been really happy with this set up. I?m not an auto electrician by any means. The feeling of being in ?control? of the ?Controller? gives me immense satisfaction. And to ride around seeing the monitor recording along with an accurate ammeter is satisfying to say the lease.

Y'know that Old Mechanical Regulator aint such a bad chap after all, he just needs a little help every now and then.  ;)
Good Advice
0
No reactions
Ride Safely Lads! LJ.
**********************
1940 BSA M20 500cc Girder/Rigid- (SOLD)
1947 BSA M21 600cc Girder/Rigid-Green
1949 BSA A7   500cc Girder/Plunger Star Twin-(SOLD)
1953 BSA B33  500cc Teles/Plunger-Maroon
1961 BSA A10  650cc Golden Flash-Blue
1961 BSA A10  650cc Golden Flash-Red

Online groily

  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Jul 2007
  • Posts: 1118
  • Karma: 18
    • www.brightsparkmagnetos.com
Re: Voltage regulators
« Reply #3 on: 19.04. 2008 19:28 »
I'm with you LJ, up to a point! The old regulators were and can still be pretty good. I have several lying around, and they can indeed be tweaked to deliver. But I do have to say that their management of the field input leaves something to be desired, and the cut-out side is also sometimes prone to trouble. The reason I like the DVR2 is mainly this: it is not so wired that the residual magnetism of the dynamo has to produce, from a standing start, enough oomph to get transistors to operate (or if it is so wired, it gets over the problem I'll describe in a second). It also cuts out very fast - there is no discharge at tickover, at all - and cuts in as soon as it can contribute. Most mechanical regulators at v low rpm burden the battery, and the cut-in can be somewhat later than ideal. As I understand it, and I am absolutely no expert (barely understand what electricity is, to be honest), you need to produce at least 0.7v from a dynamo to get a transistor to perform whatever its role in life is. A lot of electronic regulators have used a pair of transistors coupled together - a 'Darlington Pair' - this means the residual or 'remanent' magnetism of the dynamo has to be enough to generate 1.4 volts from the armature before there can be any battery input to the field coil- which often means the said electronic thingummy won't cut in until you have given the engine more revs than are good for it from cold. Or it won't cut in at all.
However, I would never denigrate a decently maintained Lucas CVC box - amazing they work at all, let alone for so long, when you think how often the points on the regulator are opening and closing to average out the current getting to the field. And the fact that I keep the old ones says something! (You never know when you're going to need something, anything at all that works, on a dark and wet night . . .) Groily
Good Advice
0
No reactions
Bill

Online Brian

  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: May 2007
  • Posts: 1711
  • Karma: 41
  • Mt Gambier, South Australia.
Re: Voltage regulators
« Reply #4 on: 20.04. 2008 02:26 »
I've just bought one of the DVR2 electronic units which I will put on my plunger A10. All my bikes currently have the old mechanical units on them so time will tell how it works out. The main reason for getting one is not being able to find good original units. I have bought a couple of repro ones and not had much luck with them, they work but only when they feel like it. Time will tell..............

                                                                                              Brian.
Good Advice
0
No reactions

Online groily

  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Jul 2007
  • Posts: 1118
  • Karma: 18
    • www.brightsparkmagnetos.com
Re: Voltage regulators
« Reply #5 on: 20.04. 2008 12:43 »
So far so very good for me Brian, and also for one or two mates with other marques. Equally pleasing at 6 and 12 volt, so far (early days, and with shorter nights there's going to be less chance to test them out for a bit under load). . . fingers crossed . . . Groily
Good Advice
0
No reactions
Bill

Online Brian

  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: May 2007
  • Posts: 1711
  • Karma: 41
  • Mt Gambier, South Australia.
Re: Voltage regulators
« Reply #6 on: 25.04. 2008 23:22 »
The DVR2 turned up and I have fitted it. Seems to work really well doing everything claimed. At this stage I would say it is definitely better than the CVC unit. I fitted it inside a old CVC box so no one could tell its in there. As soon as I get some time off work I will put some miles on the bike including night time and see how it goes.  Brian.
Good Advice
0
No reactions

Online groily

  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Jul 2007
  • Posts: 1118
  • Karma: 18
    • www.brightsparkmagnetos.com
Re: Voltage regulators
« Reply #7 on: 25.04. 2008 23:51 »
I've got 2 of them now Brian, the second one set to work at 12 volt on my AMC twin. Both are doing much better than what went before . . . .  so far!! I just stuck the A10's in the toolbox and gained the space the CVC used to steal, and on the other bike, under the seat out of sight and out of - I hope - mind. Good luck! Groily
Good Advice
0
No reactions
Bill

Online RichardL

  • Outside Chicago, IL
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Nov 2007
  • Posts: 5154
  • Karma: 49
Re: Voltage regulators
« Reply #8 on: 03.10. 2008 06:15 »
Hello,

My DVR2 arrived yesterday and I thought there might be some interest in seeing my adaptation with the original Lucas outer box and a piece of sheet aluminum. The aluminum should make a good heat sink and the extra holes will allow a little air flow. The blue wire is earth and will attach to chassis. I am saving the Lucas guts in case I go through an extreme nostalgia fit, or someone wants to buy it. Temporarily, I will stuff the regulator into its position with rubber foam. Eventually, I will adapt bolts. I was a little frustrated this evening when I discovered I did not have the barrel terminals to accept the bullets on the DVR2, thus, no ride tonight.

Richard

Good Advice
0
No reactions
Plan on signing up for the world-wide 2020 DISTINGUISHED GENTLEMAN'S RIDEon September 27, 2020. This year it's a solo or pillion ride in dapper attire. Watch website at https://www.gentlemansride.com for details.


Offline frankenstein

  • A's Best Friend
  • ***
  • Join Date: Jul 2008
  • Posts: 41
  • Karma: 0
Re: Voltage regulators
« Reply #9 on: 03.10. 2008 18:41 »
hi i have just bought a dvr2 as well....i have been only using it for 2 weeks....so a bit early for a full report but it seems to be working superb....i removed the bullet connectors and soldered my wires..i also did a double earth...results are great and it fits just great in the tool box !
Good Advice
0
No reactions

Offline Glen

  • Active
  • *
  • Join Date: Sep 2016
  • Posts: 2
  • Karma: 0
Re: Voltage regulators
« Reply #10 on: 03.09. 2016 20:58 »
Hello everyone, I have just joined the forum, saw some interesting posts whilst searching internet so thought I would join. I also wondered if anyone know if the dynamo wiring is different when using a K-TEC 12 volt neg earth. (Yes I know there are better ones on the market but I had one on for years and have a old but new spare. I recently fitted a new armature and took picture of the way the dynamo was wired however lost the pictures somehow. I am sure it was wired different to the standard wiring of brushes with a regulator on 6 volt.
any help would be appreciated as I don't want to connect up and run until I find out.
thanks
Glen
Good Advice
0
No reactions

Online groily

  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Jul 2007
  • Posts: 1118
  • Karma: 18
    • www.brightsparkmagnetos.com
Re: Voltage regulators
« Reply #11 on: 03.09. 2016 21:27 »
The link here (http://bsa-a10.hailwood.com/ktec.html) doesn't say anything about the dynamo wiring for using K Tec jobs (6 or 12v)  as far as I can see, so one would assume that the dynamo's field coil was to be wired the Lucas way - ie one end to earth, t'other to the F terminal on the dynamo.
The info on testing/troubleshooting rather confirms this when it states that output tests and 'motoring' should be done bridging F and D (the Lucas-wired way), so I think the dynamo wiring must stay unchanged.

AFAIK the JG regulator is the only UK-made 'named brand' that requires the field coil to be wired across F and D for 'live side' regulation, and that is because I think it was originally conceived for operation with Miller systems, which regulated as standard on that side, like most 'continental' systems. I remember it confused me in about 1980 when I bought an early JG as an early adopting 12-volter.

Oh  . . . and some of the Wassell solid state regulators are designed to confuse by requiring different configurations for pos and neg earth - compounded by errors in the instructions I believe.
Good Advice
0
No reactions
Bill

Offline Glen

  • Active
  • *
  • Join Date: Sep 2016
  • Posts: 2
  • Karma: 0
Re: Voltage regulators
« Reply #12 on: 03.09. 2016 21:34 »
Thanks Groily, I just seem to remember something odd about wiring but it may well be how I had one once before on another A10.

I took a picture when I took it apart, however lost the picture somehow. It had been working for years, unfortunately the end of dynamo came loose and messed armature up
thanks
Glen
Good Advice
0
No reactions