Author Topic: New acquisition! Gear + Clutch questions  (Read 3092 times)

Offline unclerob

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New acquisition! Gear + Clutch questions
« on: 01.12. 2013 13:30 »
Thought I'd post some thoughts now I've had the bike for a couple of weeks....
The first ride was a fairly apprehensive one as the last on an A10 was at least 25 years ago, main concern was the brakes but happily far better than I expected, the rear is excellent (especially when used to change gear!) and the front adequate. I wasn't expecting the forks to be great but surprised by how just how harsh they feel, wondering if harder than standard ones were fitted during the rebuild so planning on trying a pair of the multi rate springs that I see Paul Goff sells, will also take the opportunity to fit long shrouds at the same time....
The only other disappointment was the gearchange, it has a very notchy feel to it, something I don't ever recall, guessing its clutch related because there seems to be a momentary hesitation in it releasing...almost as if theres glue in there instead of oil...if you see what I mean!! No problem in finding neutral though....any thoughts?
Otherwise, very very pleased, it was rebuilt about 4 years ago, very few miles since and whoever rebuild the engine did an excellent job, mechanically quiet (the exhaust isn't though!), no oil leaks at all, no wet sumping and starts second or third kick....which is fortunate since the compression is so high I think about 5 would be my limit before exhaustion sets in...

edit: split from http://www.a7a10.net/forum/index.php?topic=7718.0
 

Offline fido

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New acquisition! Gear + Clutch questions
« Reply #1 on: 01.12. 2013 16:00 »
They don't like fast gearchanges but if you do it in a slow, methodical manner it should be fine. If you have been exclusively riding modern bikes you need to get used to the much greater flywheel inertia of the A10.

Offline unclerob

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New acquisition! Gear + Clutch questions
« Reply #2 on: 01.12. 2013 17:05 »
True....I am used to more modern bikes but I think its more than that, for instance if you engage gear straight after pulling in the clutch it will clonk and almost lurch forwards...wait 2 or 3 seconds and its fine. I expect all will be revealed when I have a look inside, am planning several jobs on it but not til Xmas and in the meantime was just wondering....

Offline duTch

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New acquisition! Gear + Clutch questions
« Reply #3 on: 02.12. 2013 11:30 »

G'day Rob, I hope the neutrals you find is the one you need, there can be others where you don't expect...!!

  What Fido said about the changes, but mine is fairly quick compared to my Gutzzi...
 I reckon just use it for a while and get the feel...if it hasn't been used much, might just need a settling in period- take it out and play with it..!!

 lookin' good though, cheers , duTch
   
 PS, I think my G changes are quite slow, as it requires a lot of thought- L?/R?.....Up?/Down?......???-hit or miss!!
Started building in about 1977/8 a on average '52 A10 -built from bits 'n pieces never resto intended -maybe 'personalised'
Have a '74 850T Moto Guzzi since '92-best thing I ever bought doesn't need a kickstart 'cos it bump starts sooooooooo(mostly) easy
Australia

Offline unclerob

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New acquisition! Gear + Clutch questions
« Reply #4 on: 02.12. 2013 15:59 »
Know just what you mean Dutch...I've got a Honda with a reversed gearchange and a normal one on a Ducati and my feet have got totally confused! But it is more than just that, today I went to use it and the clutch wouldn't disengage at all, took all the slack out of the cable...then a bit more and it finally freed, re adjusted the cable but now it slips all the time....can't even kick it over....will investigate further when I have time. If something is really past it in there I might be tempted to buy it a Pearson clutch for Xmas!

Offline duTch

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New acquisition! Gear + Clutch questions
« Reply #5 on: 05.12. 2013 16:03 »


   *eek*
Quote
... and a normal one ....
*conf* *???* *dunno*
Started building in about 1977/8 a on average '52 A10 -built from bits 'n pieces never resto intended -maybe 'personalised'
Have a '74 850T Moto Guzzi since '92-best thing I ever bought doesn't need a kickstart 'cos it bump starts sooooooooo(mostly) easy
Australia

Offline Stephen Foster

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New acquisition! Gear + Clutch questions
« Reply #6 on: 05.12. 2013 16:32 »
Wonder if Anyone could please give Me some information on the "Pearson Clutch" please ?
Have a six spring nightmare on the "Shooting Star" & am looking for something better .

Thanks in advance ,
Steve ...
I own a 1955/56 B.S.A Swinging Arm "Golden Flash" , had it since 1976 .

Online Triton Thrasher

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New acquisition! Gear + Clutch questions
« Reply #7 on: 05.12. 2013 16:40 »
True....I am used to more modern bikes but I think its more than that, for instance if you engage gear straight after pulling in the clutch it will clonk and almost lurch forwards...wait 2 or 3 seconds and its fine.

That sounds like the spinning parts taking time to slow down. Thicker oil in the gearbox might help.

Offline chaterlea25

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New acquisition! Gear + Clutch questions
« Reply #8 on: 05.12. 2013 21:49 »
HI Steve,
The Pearson Clutch is similar to the one in this post by Orabanda
http://www.a7a10.net/forum/index.php?topic=708.0
Attached are a selection of photos of the Pearson set up
Not a cheap option !! A 4 spring from a reputable supplier will be cheaper, Beware!! of the ones sold with crappy plates and nasty Wassel chain wheels !!!!
HTH
John
1961 Super Rocket
1963 RGS (ongoing)

Offline unclerob

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Re: New acquisition! Gear + Clutch questions
« Reply #9 on: 06.12. 2013 17:31 »
Thank you for moving this..it sort of changed mid way through....sorry!
Anyway, I'm now fairly certain something is very wrong with the clutch, or worse....maybe the gearbox? The other day I managed to stop it dragging whilst I was playing with the cable adjustment but it was slipping when I tried it (with free play at the lever), today without touching anything it won't disengage at all!
My theory (for what its worth!) is the whole clutch is moving in and out somehow and making the pushrod length/adjustment constantly alter?
As far as I can recall that either means the bit attached to the mainshaft is loose but wouldn't it just come off and there'd be no drive at
all? Or worse, the gearbox mainshaft itself is somehow moving in and out but then it still selects all gears ok? Its a 4 spring type clutch by the way....
Will investigate properly as soon as I have time to spare but in the meantime I'm just about to order a Pearson clutch, I don't have any clutch parts at all for the other bike I'm putting together so from that point of view its not so much of an outlay (just under £500 inc the oil seal mod)
I've scanned an old magazine article that might be of interest....
oh, and btw there was a time when a right hand gear change was normal to me as well! I stopped riding British bikes in the early80's when I became a courier, after 10 years and more than 400 thousand miles on a variety of Honda 250's left hand ones were definitely even more normal!!

Online morris

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Re: New acquisition! Gear + Clutch questions
« Reply #10 on: 07.12. 2013 09:19 »
Sounds exactly like mine when I got it. Slipping clutch, and when trying to adjust it wouldn't disengage anymore. Cause was the clutch loose on the shaft. The PO managed to dislocate the washer behind the nut when tightening it, so it worked itself loose. Worth a check.
Cheers.
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Offline bikerbob

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Re: New acquisition! Gear + Clutch questions
« Reply #11 on: 07.12. 2013 14:39 »
Your problem could be the oil that is in the primary case if the oil is engine oil then the oil tends to make the clutch plates stick together thus making for a clonk when you put it into gear. I would recommend using straight 20 fork oil in the primary case much better for the modern clutch materials.

Offline Rocket Racer

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Re: New acquisition! Gear + Clutch questions
« Reply #12 on: 02.01. 2014 19:31 »
Any problem with the clutch will manifest as a difficult gearbox. You mention it almost lurches forward, ie is dragging. If its doing that throughout the box will feel sticky.
I'm guessing you haven't identified what clutch you have:
The 6 spring clutches are notorious and while its possible to get them to work adequately (I put up with one from 1985 until last year!) they would be an embarrasment in a washing machine. The primary issue being the bearings are patheticly budget balls rather than rollers so the baskets typically wobble and flop about.
The latter triumph type (4 spring) is a better bet and still standard and should be able to be made to function well although superior modern replacements including belt drive types are now available too if finances or engineering capabilities permit.

In my race A10 I run a Bob newby racing 6 spring belt drive (loverly  *respect*)
and in my super rocket I have a modified suzuki clutch.
my ZB33 now has a four spring triumph type and its a huge improvement, I was starting to think my plunger box was a bit sad, but a decent clutch really improved it.

However a BSA pre unit box will will always be a fairly slow changer (compared to anything modern) unless you upgrade to a TT industries replica box which is filly modern and your pockets are way deeper than mine.

Lovely bike!
A good rider periodically checks all nuts and bolts with a spanner to see that they are tight - Instruction Manual for BSA B series, p46, para 2.
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Offline unclerob

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Re: New acquisition! Gear + Clutch questions
« Reply #13 on: 02.01. 2014 20:37 »
I haven't taken it apart yet as I'm waiting for a new clutch to arrive first so still don't know quite where the problem lies....it has a 4 spring clutch at present though.
I did think about a Newby one but decided on the Pearson partly because I'm a bit wary of belt drives, and also because I like the oil seal conversion that he does....
I'd be happy with the box if it was like other A10's, on this you veered across the road every time you changed gear because you had to put so much effort into it!
Though I wouldn't exactly describe it as dragging, I did find that if you held the lever in for maybe 2 seconds then changed gear, then it changed ok...ish, now though, its given up with that and slips continually...I haven't done anything at all except play around with cable free play.
I'm sure I'll find the problem when it comes apart but what I can't understand is if the clutch centre is loose on the mainshaft then surely I'd have no drive at all, end of story?
Its been so long that I can't remember how things are arranged but is it possible that the mainshaft is somehow moving back and forward a bit inside the box and causing this, rather than an actual clutch problem?

Online morris

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Re: New acquisition! Gear + Clutch questions
« Reply #14 on: 02.01. 2014 21:05 »
I'm sure I'll find the problem when it comes apart but what I can't understand is if the clutch centre is loose on the mainshaft then surely I'd have no drive at all, end of story?

If it's a taper shaft (should be) then there's a woodruff key, so even with the clutch loose on the shaft you will still have drive.
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