Author Topic: covers our street in a haze of blue smoke  (Read 4851 times)

Offline A10Boy

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Re: covers our street in a haze of blue smoke
« Reply #15 on: 12.02. 2009 10:44 »
Maybe it is a loose guide, but don't they get looser as the head warms up and make a rattling noise?

Doesn't blue smoke indicate combusted oil, I would have thought that oil in an exhaust would have heated and vaporised progressively as the exhaust warms up rather than combusted. Blue smoke indicates to me that the problem is going on inside the engine.

For my two-penn'oth, if it was my bike there are three things I would do, [sorry if you've already thought of this].

1/ Remove the sump plug just to see its it wet sumping, and if its not, put the plug back in and go to item 2.

2/ Remove the offending exhaust pipe [before starting the engine] to see if there is oil in there, and if not leave the pipe off and remove the plugs, turn the engine over till the exhaust valve opens and look in there with a lamp, you should see from the coke / witness marks around the bottom of the valve guide if its loose. If there are no witness marks on the Guide its probably tight, but if the valve stem is oily then its a worn guide. [you wont see what happening to the inlet valve and guide using this method but it at least shows what is going on with the exhaust valve and guide]

3/ If there is no obvious wet oil on the piston or valve or guide or coming from the exhaust port, put the plugs back in, leave the exhaust off, put some ear defenders on and start her up. You should then see if wet oil is being blown out of the exhaust immediately following start up or what's going on.

If there is no wet sumping, and the piston is oily, but the Ex valve is dry, and the Ex guide is tight, you will need to remove the rocker box to check the inlet valve guide tightness as it would indicate a possible problem here.

One question, does it make any difference whether you park it on the centre or side stands ??

Sorry that turned into a long one once I started....



Regards

Andy

1960 A10 - Black Golden Flash
Plus
1974 Kawasaki Z1a
Yam XJR 1300

Offline a10sausage

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Re: covers our street in a haze of blue smoke
« Reply #16 on: 12.02. 2009 18:58 »
i will remove the sump plug over the weekend...stuck with the dreaded decorating at the moment....bantam john looks like it might be worth a browse for silencers as i am going to the stafford show in april
1959 bsa bantam d1
1956 ariel huntmaster
1922 triumph model h
1930 sunbeam model 8
1936 bsa q21 500 bluestar
1939 velocette mac
1975 honda cb750
2013 victory vegas

Offline olev

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Re: covers our street in a haze of blue smoke
« Reply #17 on: 13.02. 2009 12:11 »
When you drop the sump off, check there is not a bit of poop caught under the ball in the oil pickup.

otherwise,
A postage discount will apply if you buy all 3 springs, cheers

www.a7a10.net/forum/index.php?topic=848.0




Offline a10sausage

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Re: covers our street in a haze of blue smoke
« Reply #18 on: 13.02. 2009 12:56 »
ok....here we go...just undone the sump drain plug and 3/4 of a pint of oil drained out....aaaarrrggghhhh! would this be classed as wet sumping....next move anybody...or info on ANTI WET SUMP VALVE  does This valve fit in the  oil supply line and stops the engine filling with oil while bike is sitting for extended periods
1959 bsa bantam d1
1956 ariel huntmaster
1922 triumph model h
1930 sunbeam model 8
1936 bsa q21 500 bluestar
1939 velocette mac
1975 honda cb750
2013 victory vegas

Offline LJ.

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Re: covers our street in a haze of blue smoke
« Reply #19 on: 13.02. 2009 13:58 »
Try using a thicker oil first... I use straight 50 and never have problems with wet sumping. A cupful of oil in the sump is about normal.
Ride Safely Lads! LJ.
**********************
1940 BSA M20 500cc Girder/Rigid- (SOLD)
1947 BSA M21 600cc Girder/Rigid-Green
1949 BSA A7   500cc Girder/Plunger Star Twin-(SOLD)
1953 BSA B33  500cc Teles/Plunger-Maroon
1961 BSA A10  650cc Golden Flash-Blue
1961 BSA A10  650cc Golden Flash-Red

Offline a10sausage

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Re: covers our street in a haze of blue smoke
« Reply #20 on: 13.02. 2009 14:06 »
just run the bike round the street after draining the sump...no smoke at all.
1959 bsa bantam d1
1956 ariel huntmaster
1922 triumph model h
1930 sunbeam model 8
1936 bsa q21 500 bluestar
1939 velocette mac
1975 honda cb750
2013 victory vegas

Offline A10Boy

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Re: covers our street in a haze of blue smoke
« Reply #21 on: 13.02. 2009 16:39 »
I am glad you found the problem.

You probably need one of these, there are two types, one fits into the crankcase, the other goes in the oil line.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BSA-NORTON-TRIUMPH-ANTI-WET-SUMPING-VALVE-COMPLETE_W0QQitemZ400030120495QQihZ027QQcategoryZ108839QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

If you dont want to do ebay their phone number is 01558 668579

Cheers
Regards

Andy

1960 A10 - Black Golden Flash
Plus
1974 Kawasaki Z1a
Yam XJR 1300

TJ

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Re: covers our street in a haze of blue smoke
« Reply #22 on: 13.02. 2009 18:08 »
Hi everyone,... re ARMOURS.
The system I bought for my Starfire build ( see 8 above ) came via mail order, as I wasn't ready to fit them straight away the package was unopened for a couple of months.  When the day came to fit them boy what a dissapointment, .... the high level pipe had a dent on the top run ( very visable area ).  The shorty silencer mounting bracket looked as though it had been shaped by someones dentures ( false teeth ) it was really rough. 
The best laugh was when I offered them to the bike,  the pipe was 9 inches too long !!!  I can here you all saying just cut a bit off.  I did,   like you would.
OK so now its the right length, offer it up again, not looking too bad, maybe I can live with the dent afterall.
On with the silencer,.... should it realy stick out at 45 degree's like it was doing.  I think not, ... the final bend on the pipe was totally wrong.!!!!
Dumped it back into the box and placed it really gently,.... no really gently, honest !!! as far under the bench it would go. 

TJ

Offline a10sausage

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Re: covers our street in a haze of blue smoke
« Reply #23 on: 13.02. 2009 18:57 »
that anti wet sumping valve looks superb...looks like i will take purchase a.s.a.p......thanks to all for your quality advice....i had heard armours pipes where good...this has put me right off buying them...so i will look around for more...cheers
1959 bsa bantam d1
1956 ariel huntmaster
1922 triumph model h
1930 sunbeam model 8
1936 bsa q21 500 bluestar
1939 velocette mac
1975 honda cb750
2013 victory vegas

Offline a10sausage

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Re: covers our street in a haze of blue smoke
« Reply #24 on: 13.02. 2009 19:01 »
chrisf1....lovely bike where did you get your fenders from if you dont mind me asking
1959 bsa bantam d1
1956 ariel huntmaster
1922 triumph model h
1930 sunbeam model 8
1936 bsa q21 500 bluestar
1939 velocette mac
1975 honda cb750
2013 victory vegas

Online bsa-bill

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Re: covers our street in a haze of blue smoke
« Reply #25 on: 13.02. 2009 19:33 »

just undone the sump drain plug and 3/4 of a pint of oil drained out.

Well that settles the discusion = glad you got to the bottom of it ( pun intended ) *smiley4*

Now we need to answer the question as to why it smokes only on one side?

All the best - Bill
All the best - Bill
1961 Flash - stock, reliable, steady, fantastic for shopping
1959 Rocket Gold Flash - blinged and tarted up  would have seizure if taken to  Tesco

Offline trevinoz

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Re: covers our street in a haze of blue smoke
« Reply #26 on: 16.02. 2009 05:42 »
A10 Sausage, fit that valve at your own peril! I have just recently seen the results of one not operating on a Norton Commando.
Crank regrind, new shells, new pistons and rebore plus a lot of labour.
If you must, fit a ball valve with a magneto cut-out.
  Trev.

Offline LJ.

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Re: covers our street in a haze of blue smoke
« Reply #27 on: 16.02. 2009 09:37 »
I must admit I am not a lover of anti sumping valves, in fact I think I would be too scared to use one, it's another part that 'can' go wrong and as Trevinoz says... "fit that valve at your own peril!"

Sausage... Now how long did it take you to undo that sump plug, let the oil run out, and then put the plug back in? Ten Mins maybe?? to help in preventing Wet sumping ensure your oil is thicker mono 50 for summers and mono 40 for winter, start and ride bike regularly at lease once a week. If you do intend to leave your bike standing for a long time then a sump full of oil is not a bad thing, the bearings will be very well oiled and with a turn over of the crank before draining you are then giving everything a good coating before initial start up. I would leave well alone...
Ride Safely Lads! LJ.
**********************
1940 BSA M20 500cc Girder/Rigid- (SOLD)
1947 BSA M21 600cc Girder/Rigid-Green
1949 BSA A7   500cc Girder/Plunger Star Twin-(SOLD)
1953 BSA B33  500cc Teles/Plunger-Maroon
1961 BSA A10  650cc Golden Flash-Blue
1961 BSA A10  650cc Golden Flash-Red

Offline Chrisf1

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Re: covers our street in a haze of blue smoke
« Reply #28 on: 16.02. 2009 12:56 »
Hi a10 sausage I got the fenders and stays from

AUTOCYCLE ENGINEERING
01384 253030   Fax: 01384 240401   
sales@auto-cycle.co.uk

hope this helps Chris

Offline a10sausage

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Re: covers our street in a haze of blue smoke
« Reply #29 on: 18.02. 2009 10:08 »
i almost ordered one of those anti wet sumping valves....then i thought if this thing fails it would be curtains for the engine and big wallet damage.....so i chickened out and bought an external oil filter kit from carrot cycles instead.....yes i know this kit is nothing to do with wet sumping but my friends flash has one and it performs the job well....so my next job is to fit that....i will also change my oil to 50s....i am running a multigrade at the moment....lg yes your right only 5-10 mins to drop the sump oil....and now spring is on the way the flash will be out a lot...so it might not wet sump as much......has any body got one of those magnetic sump plates...are they ok...chrisf1 thanks for the info on the fenders...thats another item on my now long shopping list..i am also in the middle of fitting an electronic ignition on my friends flash;its on of them new ones that are inside the magneto for the correct look..http://www.columbusmotorcycles.co.uk/thorspark.html..report to follow....roll on the stafford show in april........the sausage!
1959 bsa bantam d1
1956 ariel huntmaster
1922 triumph model h
1930 sunbeam model 8
1936 bsa q21 500 bluestar
1939 velocette mac
1975 honda cb750
2013 victory vegas