Author Topic: Sealing  (Read 1231 times)

Offline Terryb

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Sealing
« on: 27.06. 2017 16:18 »
Has anybody used Tapox on an Oil Tank, not to resist ethanol, but as a sealant?

May be a silly question!

Online Greybeard

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Re: Sealing
« Reply #1 on: 27.06. 2017 16:28 »
Has anybody used Tapox on an Oil Tank, not to resist ethanol, but as a sealant?

I've never heard of it but their marketing looks optimistic. Could you be sure to properly degrease an oil tank?

I once, (circa 1966) worked in a plating works; there was a tank that held a vapour that condensed on metals and thoroughly degreased them. I used to know what the vapour was; maybe it was Carbon Tetrachloride? Probably illegal in First World countries now.

Update: I believe it was trichloroethylene

Yikes! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trichloroethylene

Online Billybream

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Re: Sealing
« Reply #2 on: 27.06. 2017 19:45 »
Trich Tanks.
Most engineering shops had them in the 60s and 70s, they were used for degreasing components, the parts were put into a wire basket and into the tank to cook for a few minutes.
The fumes were very strong and made your eyes water.
They were great for bike parts, especially chains, had many a bolicking for using them for foreigners.
Having a bike and working in engineering was a real help, everything from machining to plating and painting happy days.
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Online Greybeard

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Re: Sealing
« Reply #3 on: 27.06. 2017 19:49 »
After reading that Wikipedia article I've discovered how dangerous that stuff is.

Offline kiwipom

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Re: Sealing
« Reply #4 on: 28.06. 2017 00:35 »
hi guys, yes Carbon Tetrachloride was used as a degreaser, we used it to in the 70ties to degrease pipe threads before a sealant (expando) was used on gas pipes. Also it was used in offices for cleaning printers now banned because it was very dangerous if fumes were inhaled, cheers
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Offline Terryb

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Re: Sealing
« Reply #5 on: 28.06. 2017 10:24 »
Hi All, thanks for the advice.

The reason for asking was that I am just preparing the petrol tank for Tapox, which I've used before with success. I have a very small leak (not easily detectable, less than a pin prick size) in the oil tank in the top third. But low enough to be below the oil level and as I will have excess Tapox left over from the petrol tank I thought of using it on the oil tank and hopefully seal the leak.

I've cleaned and degreased the oil tank and then treated it with Fertan, I've now flushed the oil tank through to remove any excess and now waiting for it to dry. If you've ever used Fertan it leaves like a black charcoal type film inside the tank, which when dry helps the Tapox to key to the surface. So now I either have to continue with the Tapox process or find a way of cleaning the Fertan from the inside, hence the post.

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Re: Sealing
« Reply #6 on: 28.06. 2017 10:43 »
I asked the forum about sealing my oil tank that also had a small leak; the consensus was a no because of the risk of liner coming off and blocking oil flow. Lining a petrol tank is not so risky. I bought another oil tank.

Offline Sluggo

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Re: Sealing
« Reply #7 on: 28.06. 2017 16:21 »
I would agree about not using a plastic type tank liner on a oil tank (bag) as many people experience adhesion issues.  However small leaks are easily corrected.  I am a big fan of high tech welding, and while I am only at best a marginally skilled welder, I worked with some of the best welders in the US and still access many of them who are willing to do small jobs on the side.  Cannot beat a skilled TIG welder using the best materials.  And fabbing a new tank, thats what I would do. 
But repairing a vintage and well worn & seasoned,,,,,,,and by seasoned I mean metal fatigue.  I would braze it.  Some oil tanks are either silver soldered or brazed in initial construction as well so, examine joints, fittings and seams carefully.  But good old school brazing on a properly cleaned surface will do the job just fine.  Follow it with a leak test. (Warm the tank to oil operating temps and then add water or petrol and look for a leak, (Be careful that the liquid is also near same temp)  I would avoid pressure testing..  If still signs of a leak easy to clean and prep again.
Silver solder is also a viable method but less common.  Olden days some metal workers and body shops used lead, but not a easy skill to learn and not suitable for joints and sealing surfaces.
As to all these drastic chemicals, thats a bit over kill.  Find a radiator shop or commercial stripping shop and have the oil bag dipped.  I use a commercial shop down in the city industrial district and oil bags are $20 each to have chemically stripped.  If you want to clean and strip it yourself,, paint stripper and then clean with MEK or just use plain old Lacquer thinner from a body shop supply store. (Lacquer thinner is not used anymore for paint but still sold for cleaning parts or cleaning paint equipment).  If you want the next level of chemical clean then buy some brake cleaner solvent in a aerosol can.  It will clean the last remnants of oils away and drys quicky with no residue.  (Did somebody say "Earth day"???)
Trichlor is an awesome solvent and lubricant.  But highly cancer causing and very dangerous.  I used to LOVE using it for a cutting lube.  When cutting or grinding on stainless or high grade steels when used a cutting lube the carbide tooling slices thru and removes metal like its butter.
This is because of its unique properties.  Skin, when exposed to it will get frostbite.  There was a few very stupid employees I used to work with, who huffed it. Squirted it inside a container and used it as an inhalant.  I bet they are all dead now,., they were pretty low functioning to begin with. Ironically, one was employee of the year because he had perfect attendance in 10 years of employment. 
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Offline Terryb

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Re: Sealing
« Reply #8 on: 28.06. 2017 17:39 »
Thanks guy's, I think I had already decided that Tapox is not for oil tanks. Thanks for the input though, firstly I need to locate the hole and then decide how to seal it. possibly braze it I think. Thanks anyway.

Online Black Sheep

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Re: Sealing
« Reply #9 on: 28.06. 2017 17:53 »
Even good old bar solder would do the job and is simple to apply. It certainly worked for my Velo petrol tank once the failed tank liner was removed.
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Offline BSARGS650

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Re: Sealing
« Reply #10 on: 28.06. 2017 18:13 »
Mmmm...Yes, Carbon Tetrachloride!  During my apprenticeship in a steel works in the 60's, we used buckets of CT to soak burners caked in baked on heavy fuel oil, it was the only degreaser that would clean them - even used rags dipped in the stuff to clean oil from our hands...Hell, I hope to have a few more years of biking then.....But, the workshop was a great place for the "homers" - there were even trailers made and towed out past security at the end of nightshifts without them realising.....

Offline dave55

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Re: Sealing
« Reply #11 on: 28.06. 2017 18:42 »
Oh yea, we used to make the hydraulic tubes for JCB and Caterpillar  and the tube was degreased in baths of it prior to welding but they had a covering seal of table tennis balls floating to stop it evaporating and us sniffing it  *smile*

A mate of mine used to repair such as that with a small gas torch and stick solder, bakers fluid flux on it first and during the soldering, watched him do many a truck radiator , vintage car ones in brass or copper and my petrol tanks, would even cut a bit of tin from a bean can and solder the patch on in the lunchbreak if we were stuck..........such an art that I never got the hang of  *conf* 
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Offline BSA_54A10

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Re: Sealing
« Reply #12 on: 29.06. 2017 09:37 »
Has anybody used Tapox on an Oil Tank, not to resist ethanol, but as a sealant?

I've never heard of it but their marketing looks optimistic. Could you be sure to properly degrease an oil tank?

I once, (circa 1966) worked in a plating works; there was a tank that held a vapour that condensed on metals and thoroughly degreased them. I used to know what the vapour was; maybe it was Carbon Tetrachloride? Probably illegal in First World countries now.

Update: I believe it was trichloroethylene

Yikes! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trichloroethylene

Yep,
Trico the only stuff that degreases spotlessly at room temperature with no loss to the atmosphere.
Benzene is better but it is very had to capture the vapour
Trico got banned because it is fatal if inhaled through a cigarette .
And of course it is one of those evil clorinated hydocarbons that was burning a hole in the ozone layer or would if it ever got that high which it can't but to undrstand that you would have to have done  some physics past grade 2 ( 14 year olds ) which no beaurocrats seem to have done.
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Offline BSA_54A10

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Re: Sealing
« Reply #13 on: 29.06. 2017 09:44 »
Solder is the way to go.
Tinmans solder , not electrical solder .
Best stuff is about 30% tin and has a little copper & iron in it.
Next best is a plain old steel weld.
Oxy is the way to go, a piece of doggy dune it and use some fine wire .
Oddly enough uncoated MIG wire works really well with OXY .
Bronze is never a good idea on anything that vibrates and it is really more of a glue than a hole filler
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Offline coater87

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Re: Sealing
« Reply #14 on: 29.06. 2017 13:36 »
 MIG wire also works great as filler rod for TIG welding also.

 
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