Author Topic: prime the rocker feed  (Read 2953 times)

Offline raymo

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prime the rocker feed
« on: 16.06. 2009 20:02 »
Hi folks,
 just wondering if anyone else has the same starting routine as me,
 I learned this as a 'lad' from the Guy I bought my A10 Flash from..

oil tank filler off start bike and watch the return from the pump.. so pump ok, then cover the return with a finger to force oil to the rockers.. about 10-15 seconds.. then release and watch the return feed until it bubbles  *smile*

 dont do this every time I start the bike, just the first start of the day :-)

cheers

Ray  still puzzled about my frame number as 1961 frames start 11000  mine is 10638 ???

DA10 Sr ( 1961  I think :-) )
B25S Starfire 1969
T500 ( the suzuki 2T Beast ) 1972
XLV 750Rf Honda current ride
ok so only the Honda is working :-)

Richard

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Re: prime the rocker feed
« Reply #1 on: 17.06. 2009 18:44 »
Hi
Cant say I have ever tried that but I do check every now and again that oil is getting to the rockers, the only problem is that for some time now I have been plagued by rocker box to head oil kleaks so I have no reason to look inside the oil tank for oil return going to the rockers as I can see the once golden liquid over my once clean alloy head
Regards
Richard (Wiltshire area)
(for the benifit of LJ as there are a few Richards)

Offline 69Bonni

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Re: prime the rocker feed, oil filters???
« Reply #2 on: 18.06. 2009 08:41 »
Hi Ray, Richard

Just read your post about thrashing your Rocket, Richard ... Made me smile, so it goes well then!

Just some thoughts, Does either of your bikes have spin off (or any after market) oil filters? It can make a difference to the oil feed to the rockers where the filter is fitted.

This is something i need to get to the bottom of! on one hand, fitting a filter in the line after the Tee off for the rocker feed makes sense (and its where i have mine) as priming the filter may deprive the rocker feed of oil, maybe this will only occour when replacing the filter (unless it drains down and i guess this might depend on where and how its fitted).

On the other hand, as Manormike mentioned the pressure drop created by the filter may then increase oil flow to the rockers which could lead to oil burning problems.

So what does the board reckon, maybe i should start a new thread for this one!

Perhaps we need some clear pipe in the oil lines to see the oil flow....

Richard, I remember after i had run in the Bonnie taking it to a nice flat piece or road to see if it would live up to the T120! uummm i lost my bottle before the bike ran out od steam! (maybe i should have had the engine balanced!!  *smile*)

Cheers

Steve
Kind Regards
Steve Rickman

Offline LJ.

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Re: prime the rocker feed
« Reply #3 on: 18.06. 2009 10:14 »
Quote
Perhaps we need some clear pipe in the oil lines to see the oil flow....

Morning Steve!

Clear pipe in the oil lines is a good idea but only seems to be any good if the oil is clean and new, it does not take long for the oil to go dirty and then you cant really tell if its moving or not. I have a small piece between two copper pipes leading upto the rockers.
Ride Safely Lads! LJ.
**********************
1940 BSA M20 500cc Girder/Rigid- (SOLD)
1947 BSA M21 600cc Girder/Rigid-Green
1949 BSA A7   500cc Girder/Plunger Star Twin-(SOLD)
1953 BSA B33  500cc Teles/Plunger-Maroon
1961 BSA A10  650cc Golden Flash-Blue
1961 BSA A10  650cc Golden Flash-Red

Offline Triton Thrasher

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Re: prime the rocker feed, oil filters???
« Reply #4 on: 18.06. 2009 10:32 »
priming the filter may deprive the rocker feed of oil, maybe this will only occour when replacing the filter
Steve

If your filter is positioned so the replacement screws upwards onto the bracket, you can fill it with oil before fitting.

Offline 69Bonni

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Re: prime the rocker feed
« Reply #5 on: 18.06. 2009 10:56 »
Hi LJ, Triton Thrasher (i love that name)

Yes my filters on the Bonni and Thunderbolt are mounted that way (the right way up?) and i always prefill them.

But I have seen some mounted at different angles, I was just considering if the oil would drain back fron the filter i dont think it does in the Bonnie as i check the return when i start it and it seems pretty instant same with the A65.
If they did drain back of course then there would be an issue with oil starvation.

Sorry LJ was having a Thick day! my oil is instantly black too! so you wouldnt see the flow of course in a clear pipe (Another bright idea dashed, ddrrrrrrrr).

Any Mamoth Trips plan LJ?

Im still desperatly trying to get my workshop finished

Steve
Kind Regards
Steve Rickman

Online bsa-bill

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Re: prime the rocker feed
« Reply #6 on: 18.06. 2009 14:03 »
my A10's (like most Ithink) have the rocker feed branching above the rockers and pipes going down to rocker shafts,
I have seen them different to this in that they branch below the rocker shaft then the pipes run up to the rocker shafts, this way there will always be a small amount of oil available at start up for the rocker shaft.

That said I would think the shafts would have to stand for a long long time before they got dry enough not to have enough lube on them to withstand a few seconds of running before the oil got there, I have stripped a few rockerboxs down and have not yet seen a scored shaft.

All the best - bill
All the best - Bill
1961 Flash - stock, reliable, steady, fantastic for shopping
1959 Rocket Gold Flash - blinged and tarted up  would have seizure if taken to  Tesco

Richard

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Re: prime the rocker feed
« Reply #7 on: 18.06. 2009 20:36 »
Steve
How dare you!!  Thrash my bike never  I just push it a bit, apart from the oil leaks it never seems to complain. I guess you could say it goes ok maybe having 80 thou oversize pistons has increased the cc a bit and given it a bit more umph, apart from that it is pretty much standard SR spec. Of course I ride sensibly most of the time as any of us would and just open it up when it is safe to do so and the urge comes over me.
I have a modern T100 and quite often see how fast I can get on one of the local roads of about 3/4 of a mile slightly uphill then a really sharp left hander which you cant see until you get over the final rise this bend is a sort of 40mph max, anyway just over the 100 is about the maxI have got to but it definatly gets hairy as the road is not very flat I would definatly not try it on the A10 as I would be all over the place at 70mph and probably end up in the hedge.
Yes I have an oil filter fitted in the tool box on the return from the engine the rocker feed I think comes of the union on the oil tank so after the filter the filter housing is above the filter however I just keep kicking the engine over with the plugs out until the oil returns to the tank when I change the oil and filter, never thought about pre filling the filter.
Richard

Offline 69Bonni

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Re: prime the rocker feed
« Reply #8 on: 19.06. 2009 13:55 »
Richard .... Hush my lips! Hi Bill,

However i am always interested in how people use there bikes, i think its nice to here when they go well!
I have always harped back to when i rode bikes as a kid and spent more time pushing than riding! i spose i should have more confidence in my engineering. I mean i do, do the job properly now, but when i think back i shudder to think!

A lot of people i see have the filters in there tool boxes, when i pre fill my filters i dont fill them right up of course it depends where you have them fitted and if you have to tip the cartridge to fit it pre filling isnt an option.

I had a big sake up a couple of years ago two incidents really put my confidence back, and after years of riding bikes i never thought id ever feel like i do when im on a bike now. Im trying to get myself together now with the assistance of some of the guys from the local club.

Anyhow id also like to ask you about your T100 i have heard so many people slag them off? they look fine to me! drop me a mail sometime on steve.rickman@ntlworld.com as its a bit OT.

Bill yes i guess your quite right, i think we (or is it just me) are a bit paranoid about Lubrication and of course theres probably plenty of oil floating around up there to keep the rockers lubricated, and there will be the oil already in the pipes. Ive never seen a scored shaft up top either (even through all the misuse they used to get!)

Cheers

Steve
Kind Regards
Steve Rickman

Online bsa-bill

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Re: prime the rocker feed
« Reply #9 on: 19.06. 2009 14:25 »
Hi Steve
your first paragraph is so so familiar, I remember checking my A10 tappets as an eighteen year old who knew all there was to know about tappets from my two years biking experience on 1, a NSU Quickly 2, an Aerial Sports Arrow, boasted to a mate how they had been set far to tight "you did have the cylinder on commpression Bill?", " Well of course I did", made my excuses and rode carefully home to set them again.

Bought the A10 (Flash) becuase the Arrow could not keep up with my various mates  A7ss , have to say though that the Arrow was a fantastic bike to ride a 350 engine in it would have been something.

Hope you get riding enough to get that confidence back - that would be good, I'm haveing some issues myself currently got acute pains in my legs, they're not to sure what it is but it came on after a course antibiotics, possible that it interacted with something else I take (statin maybe ), Im taking steriods for it and while there is some slow improvement the doc thinks they should have worked better and quicker so he's waitng for more blood results to be taken Monday, meanwhile I'm on 10 mil of morphine every four hours, I'm sure if I can get into the shed and back to the bike biuld and get moving around it will help but trouble is the therapy kind of takes away the spark you need to get going.
Enough of my troubles though
All the best - Bill
All the best - Bill
1961 Flash - stock, reliable, steady, fantastic for shopping
1959 Rocket Gold Flash - blinged and tarted up  would have seizure if taken to  Tesco

Offline raymo

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Re: prime the rocker feed
« Reply #10 on: 24.06. 2009 14:10 »
Hope your feeling better soon Bill,

my post was really about habits and myths.. I have always done this forcing the oil to the rockers thing.. not sure if it does any good .. but they you go:-)

 thanks for the response :-)

no work on the A10 this week.. did my charity run thing. left  Edinburgh at 06.30 on Sat 20th June.. arrived at the Ace Cafe in London at 06.27, the following day via two ferries .. Belfast  Dublin and Cardif.... along with some 50 other bike.. great event.. but now know that I am in my early 50s and not 18.... even my aches have aches :-)

 a few pic  hopefully this link works :-)  www.xrv.org.uk/forums/longest-day-2009/38287-tld-participants-pictures.html
DA10 Sr ( 1961  I think :-) )
B25S Starfire 1969
T500 ( the suzuki 2T Beast ) 1972
XLV 750Rf Honda current ride
ok so only the Honda is working :-)

Offline 69Bonni

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Re: prime the rocker feed
« Reply #11 on: 24.06. 2009 15:34 »
Hi Folks, Especially Bill!

Sorry this has wandered a bit off topic...

Really sorry to here that Bill, funny you say that i have had a big problem with my Knees lately, they sound like a sack of Mechano when i walk and when i go up stairs even worse! i think its all those years as an engineer on my knees fixing things.

It breaks my heart when i read adverts for bikes that say "selling as to old to ride" or "cant manage the bike any more" so i really hope you feel better soon Bill, im sure it wont stop you Bill.
Im convinced that all those crashes and bumps i had as a kid are now taking there toll, broken wrists and fingers, cracked hip and ribs are now taking there revenge! Funny how you bounce when your a kid.

You made me Laugh with the setting the tappets, done that too, as my Dad would have said "Bloody learn the hard way" he was an ex RSM Para / Airbourne and was at Arnham. So we never got away with much as kids!
I remember poking a pencil down the plughole to find TDC and snapping it off! Head off time! Then Burning my arm pouring caustic soda into the exhaust of my Bantam to clean it and Putting De Coker in my James Captain running it up then i noticed it had covered Dads Flash with Black sludgy muck

Bikes ah yes! Raliegh runnabout, James Captain, Franny B cruiser, Several Bantams (one notable one first after the Raliegh, a totally clapped with no compression ex Post office with legsheilds painted green but flaking off to reveal the bright red). Then a series of Triumphs and BSAs, blew up a 3TA putting 500 barrels on it. I remember pushing it for bloody miles when a coil packed up on it then ended up getting it on a train at Dorchester in the Guards Van back home to Basingstoke, You can guess the rest!

Ray, Glad your run went safely! couldnt get into thr pictures need a password or something, quite a ride that! Well done! Hope your aches get better soon!

Take it easy fellas

Regards
Steve
Kind Regards
Steve Rickman

Offline raymo

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Re: prime the rocker feed
« Reply #12 on: 24.06. 2009 15:45 »
No worries Steve.. will see if I can get some pics here..

 know what you mean about old aches and pains have some chickens coming home to rest.. my knees were fine, but I failed to bounce 3 years ago off road on a DR600  real low speed but my left leg was straight  yup.. well stuffed knee and now  I have a scrap value due to the titainium :-)....

I was speaking to my dad the other day ( he is 82 )  apparently my first ride was  on a James Captain ( 197 Villiers engine )  I was abour 5 and on th back tiesd to my dad with a scar that looped around me pulled to the front of him and tied :-)

priceless
DA10 Sr ( 1961  I think :-) )
B25S Starfire 1969
T500 ( the suzuki 2T Beast ) 1972
XLV 750Rf Honda current ride
ok so only the Honda is working :-)

Offline 69Bonni

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Re: prime the rocker feed
« Reply #13 on: 24.06. 2009 16:06 »
Ray
Happy days Eh mate!

I do hope Bills gonna be OK!

Unfortunatly .... Or fortunatly i still have to work for a living, but my family was just full of bikes. I being the youngest used to get all the cast offs!
i did save up and by a second hand Thunderbird the first bike that wasnt a hand me down! As a kid we went to all the scrambles, hill climbs and speedway meets in Dads Flash combo. Dad took us to all my cousins Trials and Scrambles (they are the Rickman Brothers). Great fun as a kid, was always allowed in the pits, there grew my love of bikes.
Was crap at scrambling broke my shoulder on a DOT racing it across an Uncles field straight into a stream covered by long grass!

I must say i wouldnt change anything! even if i suffer with all these "Screws" now

PS i dont think im brave enough to ride a Modern bike but quite like the look of the New T100s etc!

Steve
Kind Regards
Steve Rickman

Offline raymo

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Re: prime the rocker feed
« Reply #14 on: 24.06. 2009 16:37 »

PS i dont think im brave enough to ride a Modern bike but quite like the look of the New T100s etc!

Steve

 My Modern Bike is a 1985 Honda XLV 750  I thing riding any old bike with drum brakes is a brave thing :-)

at least my honda has a single disc on the front  foot not the only bike that has a problem on the run of the 50 or so bikes was a Triumph Sprint ST that need a push start :-)
DA10 Sr ( 1961  I think :-) )
B25S Starfire 1969
T500 ( the suzuki 2T Beast ) 1972
XLV 750Rf Honda current ride
ok so only the Honda is working :-)