Author Topic: Wet sumping  (Read 2430 times)

Offline BSA500

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Wet sumping
« on: 27.04. 2018 12:25 »
A different take on wet sumping. Just finished a bottom end rebuild and now it will wet sump over night ??. Any suggestions I have over started it up and get a good return. I suspect I might not have done the pump body up tight enough or the ball valve is stuck up. I have owned the A7 for 30 years and it has never done this.

Online bsa-bill

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Re: Wet sumping
« Reply #1 on: 27.04. 2018 12:38 »
Sorry to suggest the obvious but did you include the gasket ( washer shaped) under the front pump mounting?
All the best - Bill
1961 Flash - stock, reliable, steady, fantastic for shopping
1959 Rocket Gold Flash - blinged and tarted up  would have seizure if taken to  Tesco

Offline BSA500

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Re: Wet sumping
« Reply #2 on: 27.04. 2018 12:49 »
I am pretty sure I did, but I couldn't swear to it of course. Its no big effort to take the timing cover and check prob that's what I will end up doing  *sad2*

Online muskrat

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Re: Wet sumping
« Reply #3 on: 27.04. 2018 13:07 »
G'day BSA500.
Did you replace the anti siphon ball and spring? Is it the original design or the A65 modification? Was the oil pump serviced?
Cheers
'51 A7 plunger, '57 A7SS now A10CR, '76 XT500, '77 AG175 '83 CB1100F, '81 CB900F project.
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Online orabanda

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Re: Wet sumping
« Reply #4 on: 27.04. 2018 13:30 »
This is a rare occurrence, but it happened to me, so.....
Someone else converted the bottom end of a Super Rocket to needle roller bearing, and assembled the bottom end. That's when I gained the project.

I spared no expense, and ended up with a very nice bike. I also fitted a SRM oil pump.

Unlike my other bikes, this one wet sumped a lot. The reason was obscure, but important.

When the timing side crankshaft pinion was fitted, it wasn't hard up against the shoulder on the crankshaft.Consequently, although the oil pump securing screws were tight, the oil pinion side of the oil pump housing was touching the pinion, and the oil pump wasn't sitting flat against the gasket.

When i removed the timing cover , a small strand of blue swarf in the oil pump chamber gave the game away.

After I made sure there was clearance between the oil pump housing and everything else, barely any wet sumping; a huge improvement!

So, moral of the story is, look for signs of metal - to - metal contact (shavings) around the bevel drive.

Richard

Offline BSA500

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Re: Wet sumping
« Reply #5 on: 27.04. 2018 15:41 »
This is a rare occurrence, but it happened to me, so.....
Someone else converted the bottom end of a Super Rocket to needle roller bearing, and assembled the bottom end. That's when I gained the project.

I spared no expense, and ended up with a very nice bike. I also fitted a SRM oil pump.

Unlike my other bikes, this one wet sumped a lot. The reason was obscure, but important.

When the timing side crankshaft pinion was fitted, it wasn't hard up against the shoulder on the crankshaft.Consequently, although the oil pump securing screws were tight, the oil pinion side of the oil pump housing was touching the pinion, and the oil pump wasn't sitting flat against the gasket.
Yep I will pulling the timing side off to check

When i removed the timing cover , a small strand of blue swarf in the oil pump chamber gave the game away.

After I made sure there was clearance between the oil pump housing and everything else, barely any wet sumping; a huge improvement!

So, moral of the story is, look for signs of metal - to - metal contact (shavings) around the bevel drive.

Richard

Offline BSA500

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Re: Wet sumping
« Reply #6 on: 27.04. 2018 17:23 »
Sorry last post rubbish but I shall be removing the timing cover and checking the pump. If I have too can remove the pump and do an external check on the anti siphon valve

Offline BSA500

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Re: Wet sumping
« Reply #7 on: 27.04. 2018 17:48 »
Ok checked the pump all washers gasket present. I could tighten the pump studs a little so did that cleaned everything and left the sump plate off to see if the engine drops much oil.  If it does pump has to come off andiwill like the anti siphon valve a bit

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Re: Wet sumping
« Reply #8 on: 27.04. 2018 20:49 »
Orabanda's suggestion has a world of merit. That pinion can be very tight on the shaft. I always warm mine (15 minutes in boiling water) and it goes on easy.
I'd certainly be finding the problem before running the motor again. If it's wet sumping that bad there's a chance that it's not pumping to the right places either.
My plunger wet sumps (not as bad as yours) so every time the cover comes off so too does the pump. I then give the anti siphon ball a good squirt of carb clean by pushing the ball off it's seat with the tube attached to the nozzle. It does help for a while.
Did you pull the pump apart as part of the bottom end rebuild? The end plate and extension housing need to be lapped on a piece of glass to remove any scoring. The gears must be put back in exactly the same position (tooth for tooth) or binding may occur.
Cheers
'51 A7 plunger, '57 A7SS now A10CR, '76 XT500, '77 AG175 '83 CB1100F, '81 CB900F project.
Australia
Muskys Plunger A7

Offline BSA500

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Re: Wet sumping
« Reply #9 on: 27.04. 2018 22:52 »
Left the pump well alone. Cleaned the timing chest out tighten the pump studs and left over night and see how it goes

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Re: Wet sumping
« Reply #10 on: 28.04. 2018 08:41 »
Left the pump well alone. Cleaned the timing chest out tighten the pump studs and left over night and see how it goes
Please tell me you checked that the little washer/gasket/spacer is under the pump nose stud.

Offline BSA500

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Re: Wet sumping
« Reply #11 on: 28.04. 2018 09:17 »
Yes the washer is in place. I shall check the sump later today fingers crossed

Online duTch

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Re: Wet sumping
« Reply #12 on: 28.04. 2018 09:34 »
 
Quote
Re: Wet sumping
« Reply #6 on: Today at 03:23:23 »

    Quote

Sorry last post rubbish but I shall be removing the timing cover and checking the pump. If I have too can remove the pump and do an external check on the anti siphon valve

 Yeah, you stuck your reply in the middle of the quote; nothing unusual but easy to fix if you go back and click on 'modify'....

 
Quote
Please tell me you checked that the little washer/gasket/spacer is under the pump nose stud.

 Contemporary gaskets have that bit integral with the main gasket, in my mind a much better(and safer) idea, I make my own anyway.


 There's a lot of talk about balls and springs, but unless I missed it- how about the ball valve in the scavenge pipe ?

20seconds after posting; Nah forget that I had a brainfart thinking something else  *bash*

Started building in about 1977/8 a on average '52 A10 -built from bits 'n pieces never resto intended -maybe 'personalised'
Have a '74 850T Moto Guzzi since '92-best thing I ever bought doesn't need a kickstart 'cos it bump starts sooooooooo(mostly) easy
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Offline BSA500

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Re: Wet sumping
« Reply #13 on: 28.04. 2018 10:58 »
I kept going back to the pick up pipe until I realised its not part of oil feed and to stop obsessing about it. If it has dropped the oil again the only thing I can do without splitting the cases is remove the pump and poke the ball valve. Problem is I would have to drain the oil tank etc. I was nearly ready to go back on the road to.

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Re: Wet sumping
« Reply #14 on: 28.04. 2018 11:19 »

 
Quote
.....Problem is I would have to drain the oil tank etc......

 Not so hard by the sounds of it- just drop the sump plate with a pan under and go to the pub  *smile*  *bash*
Started building in about 1977/8 a on average '52 A10 -built from bits 'n pieces never resto intended -maybe 'personalised'
Have a '74 850T Moto Guzzi since '92-best thing I ever bought doesn't need a kickstart 'cos it bump starts sooooooooo(mostly) easy
Australia