Author Topic: Interfering silencers  (Read 1561 times)

Offline Steverat

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Interfering silencers
« on: 16.01. 2019 05:29 »
My new silencers from Armours do at least rub if not actually interfere with the lower rear subframe on Josef’s Beeza. I think the frame is straight. I pushed the exhaust pipes about halfway into the head counterbores, maybe I should push em all the way in but they are VERY tight and I don’t feel like hitting them even with the rubber mallet. Normally Armours pipes are such a good fit, I think I must be doing something wrong.

Any ideas?

1951 BSA A10 - now returned to Germany
1972 Triumph T100R Daytona
1924 B-S SS80
1965 Triumph SH Cub
1960 AJS M18CS

Offline Swarfcut

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Re: Interfering silencers
« Reply #1 on: 16.01. 2019 09:01 »
Steve.... This is one of those situations where you search for the best compromise.

  If you consider there are  areas of location which are critical to a good fit, then you have to choose which is best for you and involves  the least damage to your new chrome finishes.

  The mounting hole in the small bracket at the rear of the silencer may be just  slightly in the wrong place, as may be the bracket itself, making the silencer too high. The mounting bolt though the lower lug that clamps the plunger column should be fitted with the thick built in "washer" to the outside, positioning the silencer away from the frame tube. Extra packing here is possible.

  We all like to think the exhausts will fit perfectly from a well known supplier, but experience shows this is often not the case. I would make sure the head ports are clear of carbon and rust, maybe work the surface with a bit of emery or dremel grinder,
 grease the pipe end and push and wiggle the pipe so that it bottoms in the head.  Push the long stud through the joining tubes in the frame out of the way and position the exhaust pipe and silencer so they clear the frame and do not obstruct the brake pedal.

  This means that any fine adjustment can be done on the exhaust pipe mounting bracket. Tweaking the bracket and enlarging the hole are less noticeable here. If you are lucky and the hole lines up with the stud, a few washers  here can move the pipe sideways for the best fit.

  Fitted correctly the silencer lies extremely close to the frame tube without actually touching. 

 Swarfy.

Offline Tomcat

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Re: Interfering silencers
« Reply #2 on: 16.01. 2019 10:00 »
Armours.
That is the problem.
I buy exhausts from a shop that I can walk into, so that I may return them with the minimum of cost if they don't fit.
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Offline cyclobutch

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Re: Interfering silencers
« Reply #3 on: 16.01. 2019 11:46 »
Armours ... That is the problem.

Yep - thereby hangs the tail.
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Online Greybeard

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Re: Interfering silencers
« Reply #4 on: 16.01. 2019 13:42 »
Steve.... This is one of those situations where you search for the best compromise.

  If you consider there are  areas of location which are critical to a good fit, then you have to choose which is best for you and involves  the least damage to your new chrome finishes.

  The mounting hole in the small bracket at the rear of the silencer may be just  slightly in the wrong place, as may be the bracket itself, making the silencer too high. The mounting bolt though the lower lug that clamps the plunger column should be fitted with the thick built in "washer" to the outside, positioning the silencer away from the frame tube. Extra packing here is possible.

  We all like to think the exhausts will fit perfectly from a well known supplier, but experience shows this is often not the case. I would make sure the head ports are clear of carbon and rust, maybe work the surface with a bit of emery or dremel grinder,
 grease the pipe end and push and wiggle the pipe so that it bottoms in the head.  Push the long stud through the joining tubes in the frame out of the way and position the exhaust pipe and silencer so they clear the frame and do not obstruct the brake pedal.

  This means that any fine adjustment can be done on the exhaust pipe mounting bracket. Tweaking the bracket and enlarging the hole are less noticeable here. If you are lucky and the hole lines up with the stud, a few washers  here can move the pipe sideways for the best fit.

  Fitted correctly the silencer lies extremely close to the frame tube without actually touching. 

 Swarfy.
Yup, you just described the way I fitted mine. I had to make some packing spacers for the long through-stud.

Offline a10gf

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Re: Interfering silencers
« Reply #5 on: 16.01. 2019 14:31 »
Had the problem on my plunger, didn't look too much into why and how, fitted a piece of rubber between frame and silencer and forgot about it :O)

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Offline Steverat

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Re: Interfering silencers
« Reply #6 on: 16.01. 2019 18:25 »
Steve.... This is one of those situations where you search for the best compromise.

  If you consider there are  areas of location which are critical to a good fit, then you have to choose which is best for you and involves  the least damage to your new chrome finishes.

  The mounting hole in the small bracket at the rear of the silencer may be just  slightly in the wrong place, as may be the bracket itself, making the silencer too high. The mounting bolt though the lower lug that clamps the plunger column should be fitted with the thick built in "washer" to the outside, positioning the silencer away from the frame tube. Extra packing here is possible.

  We all like to think the exhausts will fit perfectly from a well known supplier, but experience shows this is often not the case. I would make sure the head ports are clear of carbon and rust, maybe work the surface with a bit of emery or dremel grinder,
 grease the pipe end and push and wiggle the pipe so that it bottoms in the head.  Push the long stud through the joining tubes in the frame out of the way and position the exhaust pipe and silencer so they clear the frame and do not obstruct the brake pedal.

  This means that any fine adjustment can be done on the exhaust pipe mounting bracket. Tweaking the bracket and enlarging the hole are less noticeable here. If you are lucky and the hole lines up with the stud, a few washers  here can move the pipe sideways for the best fit.

  Fitted correctly the silencer lies extremely close to the frame tube without actually touching. 

 Swarfy.

Thanks for the good advice, I’ll try opening the ports with my dremel and a little flap wheel. Will be sometime next week since we are away helping with a new grandchild.

1951 BSA A10 - now returned to Germany
1972 Triumph T100R Daytona
1924 B-S SS80
1965 Triumph SH Cub
1960 AJS M18CS

Offline BSARGS650

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Re: Interfering silencers
« Reply #7 on: 16.01. 2019 18:40 »
Mmmm...Never had much luck with Armours....The Siamese system would just not fit, returned, bought elsewhere and all fitted fine.  The hi-level system bought for my B31 was another poor fit example, the exhaust pipe stuck so much I could not get my foot on the rest.  On complaining, the person one the 'phone was aggressive and blamed my incompetence on fitting.  Usual thing; "We have sold thousands without complaint".  Never again.

Online duTch

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Re: Interfering silencers
« Reply #8 on: 16.01. 2019 18:52 »

 
Quote
...... I’ll try opening the ports with my dremel and a little flap wheel.........

 Have a good real hard think about that- could open a can 'o worms; maybe the ends of the headers are burred or deformed....
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Offline Steverat

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Re: Interfering silencers
« Reply #9 on: 16.01. 2019 22:54 »

 
Quote
...... I’ll try opening the ports with my dremel and a little flap wheel.........

 Have a good real hard think about that- could open a can 'o worms; maybe the ends of the headers are burred or deformed....

No burrs I already checked

1951 BSA A10 - now returned to Germany
1972 Triumph T100R Daytona
1924 B-S SS80
1965 Triumph SH Cub
1960 AJS M18CS

Offline muskrat

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Re: Interfering silencers
« Reply #10 on: 17.01. 2019 01:14 »
G'day Steve.
I'd clean the ports but definitely not open them up. You need a good snug fit into the head as the first mounting point is at the front bottom of the motor. As said could open a can of worms later on.
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Offline Swarfcut

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Re: Interfering silencers
« Reply #11 on: 17.01. 2019 08:00 »
Steve, What I meant was to  only remove any scale or rust in the ports that is stopping the pipes from seating. Just a "polish" of the casting surface, not removing any of the original metal. If you have to alter anything, sacrifice the aftermarket pipes, not the original BSA part.
 duTch is right to stress caution here.

 As Musky says they need to be a snug fit to achieve a degree of gas tightness.  The finned collars will cover any removal of material from the pipes if your quality purchases are truly out of spec and you have to relieve them a bit.....try the silencer end of the pipe in the port as a broach.

  I have had problems with Armour's pipes, but in truth they probably come from the same source whatever the brand, so they are all as bad as each other. It is almost a miracle if they fit perfectly out of the box.

 Swarfy

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Re: Interfering silencers
« Reply #12 on: 17.01. 2019 08:22 »
Quote
Mmmm...Never had much luck with Armours....The Siamese system would just not fit, returned, bought elsewhere and all fitted fine.  The hi-level system bought for my B31 was another poor fit example, the exhaust pipe stuck so much I could not get my foot on the rest.  On complaining, the person one the 'phone was aggressive and blamed my incompetence on fitting.  Usual thing; "We have sold thousands without complaint".  Never again.[/quote ]Thats my experience too. Customer relations not even in their vocabulary. Like you went some where else (Roger Sharman Cake Street Classics) exhaust fitted perfectly without any fettleing.   I personally would not touch Armours with a barge pole after my experience with them.

Offline Steverat

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Re: Interfering silencers
« Reply #13 on: 17.01. 2019 09:03 »
Well I have used Armours many times and this is the first time I’ve had a problem.

I put a compression plate in the motor which will have displaced the pipes slightly upward but that doesn’t explain the extreme tightness in the ports. Head has been vapour blasted so no scale or rust in there. Yes maybe I’ll trim the pipe end first.

1951 BSA A10 - now returned to Germany
1972 Triumph T100R Daytona
1924 B-S SS80
1965 Triumph SH Cub
1960 AJS M18CS

Online BSA_54A10

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Re: Interfering silencers
« Reply #14 on: 17.01. 2019 13:00 »
I used to get the head end of my pipes expanded at a muffler sop so they were a very tight fit in the port.
Then run the engine for 3 minutes or so, poke the pipes in and position quickly.
Pipes are not some thing  you take off daily so a tight interfearance fit is good.
To remove, block off the outlet and give the engine a handfull.
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