Author Topic: electronic ignition  (Read 1111 times)

Online RoyC

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Re: electronic ignition
« Reply #15 on: 25.06. 2019 19:14 »
Roy... Manual Advance or ATD stays as before, so no dismantling of these parts is necessary.

 TT.. You use your non sparking magneto simply as a carrier for the system, no current flows through the armature.  Yes, knackered bearings, shagged seal, full of oil, rattle version ATD, all still works.
 
Swarfy.


Thanks Swarfy.

Roy.
My bike is a 1958 A7SS
Stafford UK

Online Triton Thrasher

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Re: electronic ignition
« Reply #16 on: 25.06. 2019 20:23 »
Yes looks like £360 inc. UK tax for the dummy magneto, £80 for the Wassell kit, dual-ended ignition coil price varies a lot.  You may have to buy a solid drive pinion.

And you have to somehow have a reliable 12V charging system.

Online BSA_54A10

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Re: electronic ignition
« Reply #17 on: 26.06. 2019 09:01 »
There is a unit designed for model aeroplanes called Runtronics.
They use a solid state amplifier to produce the voltage required for the spark and the unit is the size of a matchbox.
That is the good bit
Working out how & where to mount the hall effect trigger on an A 10 is a different story.
The local post vintage off road racers have been using them for decades to good effect.
Powered by 4 D cell NiCads they run for about 15 hours on a single charge. 
Bike Beesa
Trevor

Online RoyC

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Re: electronic ignition
« Reply #18 on: 26.06. 2019 10:34 »
Roy. My choice is Thorspark. It uses the existing magneto complete with the ATD or manual set up and saves the cost of the  Wassell housing. The switching unit fits neatly into the points housing, and the control unit is available in 6 or 12 volt form. The magneto armature only needs to turn, as it simply acts as a carrier. Single coil with twin HT output, dead spark, gives accurate identical timing on both cylinders.  Power requirement is low, will supposedly give a day's running on dry batteries in case of charging system failure.

 Swarfy.


Thank you to all who chipped in with different ideas.
I am drawn to the Thorspark system, I think that I may just about be able to figure it out, probably, with a few more questions to you guys.
Can the coil part go into the toolbox or does it get too hot ?
My bike is a 1958 A7SS
Stafford UK

Online Klaus

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Re: electronic ignition
« Reply #19 on: 26.06. 2019 10:45 »
I use BT-H ignition on my racebikes, ok its not the cheap way, but it is plug and play with an easy fitment. My coils are under the tank sorry no pic available. It is a selfgenerated Systhem like the K2F with automatic advance,  so you don#t need convert to 12 Volt. You can stop turning the Magnet with a rod for easy timing and tightening the drive.

Cheers Klaus


If you think, everything is under control, you are not fast enought.

Online JulianS

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Re: electronic ignition
« Reply #20 on: 26.06. 2019 11:06 »
First photo shows dual output coil in A10 tool box, you can see the size.

Mounted on a heatsink, you can see in the second photo, which is not supplied with the coil but makes it easy to mount.

With the Boyer the coil does get hot, but caused no problems after a 150 mile run one morning.

The HT leads needed lengthening with a NGK HT splicer.

Online RoyC

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Re: electronic ignition
« Reply #21 on: 28.06. 2019 20:17 »
Roy... Manual Advance or ATD stays as before, so no dismantling of these parts is necessary.

 Swarfy.

I have ordered the Thorspark gismo.

I have the manual advance/retard.
When doing the timing, is the advance/retard lever set loose or tight cable?
My bike is a 1958 A7SS
Stafford UK

Offline RDfella

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Re: electronic ignition
« Reply #22 on: 28.06. 2019 20:43 »
loose is normally full advance
'49 B31, '49 M21, '53 DOT, '58 Flash, '00 Firestorm, Weslake sprint bike.

Online RoyC

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Re: electronic ignition
« Reply #23 on: 28.06. 2019 22:03 »
loose is normally full advance
Thanks RDfella

It has to be set on full advance.
My bike is a 1958 A7SS
Stafford UK

Online RoyC

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Re: electronic ignition
« Reply #24 on: 06.07. 2019 19:52 »
Those of you that have fitted electronic ignition.
What did you do with the existing HT leads and brushes, did you completely remove them and somehow block the holes up, or something else ?
My bike is a 1958 A7SS
Stafford UK

Online JulianS

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Re: electronic ignition
« Reply #25 on: 06.07. 2019 20:56 »
I shortened the HTs, taped them to the frame tube and left them in place.

It still looks like a magneto.

Online RoyC

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Re: electronic ignition
« Reply #26 on: 22.07. 2019 17:40 »
Roy... Manual Advance or ATD stays as before, so no dismantling of these parts is necessary.

 Swarfy.

I have ordered the Thorspark gismo.

I have the manual advance/retard.
When doing the timing, is the advance/retard lever set loose or tight cable?

I have got it fitted.
No more misfires on the left cylinder, runs better than it's ever run.

I did have to do some modification.
The advance/retard slot was not deep enough and was not allowing the unit to seat properly in the mag.
Also had to make a 2inch washer from clear plastic packaging to stop it shorting out on the mag body.

I didn't even have to remove the clutch cover to do the timing.

My bike is a 1958 A7SS
Stafford UK

Offline Swarfcut

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Re: electronic ignition
« Reply #27 on: 23.07. 2019 07:21 »
Roy, it's good to know you have had success with your new system, but a bit galling to think if yours is typical it is marketed requiring additional shaping to fit. There are not too many variants of manual magnetos, so surely they could be made to fit straight from the box. The need to add your own insulating washer is also of interest. If it needs one, why is it not included?

 Let us know how you set it up, warts and all, and how it performs.

 Swarfy.


Online RoyC

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Re: electronic ignition
« Reply #28 on: 23.07. 2019 08:15 »
Roy, it's good to know you have had success with your new system, but a bit galling to think if yours is typical it is marketed requiring additional shaping to fit. There are not too many variants of manual magnetos, so surely they could be made to fit straight from the box. The need to add your own insulating washer is also of interest. If it needs one, why is it not included?

 Let us know how you set it up, warts and all, and how it performs.

 Swarfy.


Swarfy,
My thoughts exactly.
Once I had figured out why it was not fitting properly, I stripped it down (only two screws) and filed it to the same as the original slip ring.
It did fire up and ran well.
Two days later it kept blowing the fuse, after checking and re-checking the wiring and still blowing fuses I took the unit out of the magneto, turned the ignition on, all ok, put the unit back into the magneto and fuse blew.
I made a two inch dia washer out of that clear plastic packaging, put it between the unit and the mag and all is now working well.

I knew that my timing was good with the points in so, set on full advance I put a piece of fag paper between the points, gently turned the rear wheel in a forward direction until i could pull the paper out and then I knew that the piston was in the correct position.
I put the rotor part into the magneto with one of the two magnets set on the mark on the pick up.
Job done.

Review  -  Not enough care taken with the manufacture of the unit, but, after a bit of finishing work, it works well and only costs £150.

Wiring diagram  -  I added an ignition light.


I hope this will be of help to other members.  *conf*
My bike is a 1958 A7SS
Stafford UK

Offline Swarfcut

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Re: electronic ignition
« Reply #29 on: 23.07. 2019 09:48 »
Roy, Thanks for that resume. I wonder if Thorspark are aware of these practical difficulties with their product? Having spent your wedge, I would draw their attention to your experience. Lots of times we shrug our shoulders and put it down to just one of those things, but from their standpoint it would be a valuable insight into how their system is received in the real world, and how they can improve matters by attention to detail. The need for the insulating washer is a puzzle, unless this is a common problem solved by all purchasers just as you did. Time to tell them.

 Like the idea of a telltale warning light in the system, and the clever way of utilising the existing timing to set the piston height. Well done for cracking it, helmet time now and back on the road for you before the rains come.

 Swarfy.