Author Topic: in-line oil taps and filters  (Read 5095 times)

Offline a101960

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Re: in-line oil taps and filters
« Reply #15 on: 26.10. 2007 21:11 »
SRM are talking nonsense. If you were to have your engine rebuilt by SRM they will tell you that the warranty will be invalidated if you fit an oil filter and do not use mono grade oil.  Even BSA towards the end were advocating the use of multi grade oil. Why would a company charge you a lot of money to rebuild an engine, and then tell you to use an out dated oil formula, and not to use a filter, and only give you a six month warranty? Go figure! Modern oils are superior to old oils in every respect. If you value your engine use them, and use a filter. While I agree that the ideal solution is for the filter to be fitted in the supply line, you will find that it will work perfectly well in the return line, and it does not cause wet sumping. Any filtration is better than none. Technology has moved on. Why would you want to clog up the centrifugal trap with sludge and debris when a filter will safely remove it? Several filters are available that can easily be fitted to BSA twins. There is one that can be fitted inside the tool box if you want it to be out of sight. Personally I have a BSA/Triumph Triple type filter fitted. The elements are still available and are still made by the original manufacturer. Just for the record my bike was run in on Asda super market 20/50, it now runs on fully synthetic 20/50. It does not leak oil or suffer from any other oil related problem. Think on this: The BSA/Triumph Triples were really only Triumph 500 twins with a third cylinder tacked on, and BSA/Triumph in their infinite wisdom fitted a full flow oil filter as standard, and recommended multi grade oil. There is no sensible or logical reasoning that can justify running your pride and joy without using only the best possible oil technology that money can buy, or even worse still, running it without a filter. Wet sumping is unavoidable, the laws of gravity see to that. The only variable is the time difference exhibited by individual bike. I have used the automatic in line valve in the past, but I no longer use it because the default failure mode is for the valve to close. As has already been mentioned in this thread the best solution is to fit one of the after market sump castings with a magnetic drain plug.

Offline fido

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Re: in-line oil taps and filters
« Reply #16 on: 26.10. 2007 22:26 »
I think if you ask the oil manufacturers they would not recommend synthetic oil in elderly engines. It is designed for close tolerance modern engines that can run on reduced oil film thickness. People like Castrol make oil specifically for Classic engines which is still superior to the lubricant available when our bikes were manufactured.
As an aside, I had a telephone conversation this evening with a friend who has a 1929 Triumph 550 sidevalve single outfit. This bike has suffered loss of power of recent years and he has sent the top end away to a vintage specialist. It turns out that the valves have been overheating and getting momentarily welded to their seats in the head. This has been attributed to the use of fuel additive which has been added since the demise of leaded petrol. From now on he will just run with straight unleaded. I dare say the petrol available in 1929 was fairly hit & miss and may not have contained lead anyway.

Offline a101960

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Re: in-line oil taps and filters
« Reply #17 on: 27.10. 2007 00:39 »
Redline make a 20/50 fully synthetic oil that is specifically formulated for older and air cooled engines. You can read all about it here:

 http://www.turbobits.co.uk/acatalog/redline_20w50_synthetic_motor_oil_quart.html

Regarding the valve trouble that your friend has had, I am not persuaded that any of the so called lead replacement addetives are worthwhile using. I used to run on genuine leaded 4 star until my local garage stopped selling it (He said that there was not enough demand). I now use TESCO 99 and my bike runs just fine on that, but then I have an ally head and the valve seats are already hardened (or so I am told)! Anyway it does not pink, and it pulls like a train.

Be aware that multi grade oils hold contaminants in suspension and these are removed by your filter. "Classic" mono grade oil does not hold contaminants and impurities they are centrifuged out by the sludge trap which gradually becomes blocked and its efficiency is then compromised until eventually no oil reaches the big ends. This is very old, and very crude technology, if you want your bike to last abandon mono grade oil, and fit a filter. I would also recommend using Redex as a matter of course for two reasons. 1) Redex lubricates the valves, and 2) modern petrol tends to gum up your carb jets. Redex will help to prevent this. Another good idea is to visit your local garden centre, or where ever motor mowers are serviced near you, and buy some petrol stabalizer this will also be a great help in preventing jet blockages due to modern petrol gumming  up the works.

Online groily

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Re: in-line oil taps and filters
« Reply #18 on: 27.10. 2007 06:37 »
I agree with pretty much all of that re oils. I have used 20/50s various in everything I own for all my adult life, and even without filters etc have never had any trouble in gazillions of miles. If they'd been available at the time any sensible manufacturer would have recommended them. Castrol classic oils do a nice 10/60 (semi or fully synthetic) which I have used in some cars where I don't want to be changing the oil all the time (and there's no need with the long chain polymers etc blah blah) - but too expensive for bikes that get their oil changed along with my socks. I use mainly Elf 20/50 from the French supermarket, at about 12 Euros for 5 litres. Also agree, as I said, re filters of any sort being better than nothing and ergo a Good Idea not a bad one! This forum doesn't seem to have some of the more bizarre and vituperative commentaries on what oil to use which are to be found elsewhere - it's one of its better features! But a friend of mine who used to be head chemist at one of the bigger oil companies agrees entirely with the use of the best available - which is modern multigrade - with a caveat regarding use of synthetics in some cases which i can't remember, although one of them was during running-in of old rebuilt engines (it's too effective and prolongs the process apparently). Whatever, I shall put a suitable filter in the return, finish my tap with cut-out for the feed line, instal the sump plate with drain plug and carry on same as ever. Groily
Bill

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Re: in-line oil taps and filters
« Reply #19 on: 27.10. 2007 09:41 »
I have always used a 20/50 multigrade in my A10, never had any problems with it. But I would not use it in my M20 as it has a roller big end which I think a mono grade is more suitable.As for filters I have seen these fitted upside down/sideways on & crammed into any available space. I don,t know if they work well fitted like this, I have always fitted them in the upright position ie; cartridge at bottom (you can see mine fitted to my A10 in the photo section of this forum ) reason being all the crud stays at bottom of filter hopefully..I would say if you do not have a filter fitted then you are asking for sludge build up in crank. Also you have a extra half litre or so of oil in the system which must be a good thing.Groily I would check your oil pump to check for any wear/scoring I don,t have a wet sump problem on my A10 but I normally give it a good thrashing at least twice a week this could be why?????. Dave *smile*

Online bsa-bill

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Re: in-line oil taps and filters
« Reply #20 on: 27.10. 2007 10:21 »
Hey is this developing into our first oil thread !!!!!!
 Duckhams developed multigrade oil 20/50 for use in air cooled motorcycle engines way back ( late fifties early sixties ? )

Wet sumping can only occur if a bit of debris or the wieght of oil overcomes the tenson of the spring holding the ball against the pressure side of the pump, to fix this probably means a major strip down, the easy answer is to use one of Bri - Ties anti wet-sumping valves which basically does the same thing as the one in the engine but uses the pumps suction instead of pressure ( same cogs in the pump ).

Many engines in cars and other vehicles have filters on the return side - not a problem


All the best - Bill
All the best - Bill
1961 Flash - stock, reliable, steady, fantastic for shopping
1959 Rocket Gold Flash - blinged and tarted up  would have seizure if taken to  Tesco

Online groily

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Re: in-line oil taps and filters
« Reply #21 on: 27.10. 2007 19:16 »
It's all great stuff. I saw a fellow French club member this a.m. with his A7 - which he proudly told me last week never ever had a drop of surplus oil in the crankcase and 'there must be something wrong with yours mate' . . . he was late on parade . . . had to drain his crankcase before he could get going. Smoke and oil everywhere, and an almost empty oil tank, when he looked, after a few days in his shed. Touchay, as they say hereabouts. Funny old world. Now he's asking me what he should do - talk about country of the blind and the one-eyed man! That was what I asked him last week.
Re giving things a good thrashing, reckon I part-qualify in terms of usage even if I'm not throttle-happy - a steady 65 in Christian units will do for me on the old stuff - esp when the speed limit is 90kph. And the old 'uns get used most days all year as it's sooo much better than sitting in a tin box. Round here, it's a modern Yamaha XJR that sits and collects bird-doo cos it's just boring as well as licence threatening. This year my old AMC twin (tell me about wet-sumping, tin primary chaincases, drowned clutches, porous drive-side mainshaft non-seals) has done four times the mileage of the Yam (the AJ's already done a quarter of a million miles), and the BSA twice as much as the japanese, even though I only bought it in June. So it's not lack of use. (The Yam may not have ***** out any oil though - so will probably go rusty.)
Think I agree about monogrades and roller ends, although I'm not sure if there aren't multigrades which are sticky enough these days even for them. In my youf I ran a B31 on whatever I could pinch from my dad's shed - and the engine was 100% bullet-proof. Ditto a series of Ariel singles (which weren't as bullet-proof and cost me quite a bit by the standards of the day). Most of us have got some rollers in our hair - I mean engine, don't go there - even if they're lighter loaded than a big end. Think on balance if I had a single I would probably go 30 grade for winter, 50 for summer - certainly mates with Velos and stuff do that.
Re having a look at the oil pump arrangements, balls and springs etc - I'm going to. Can't remember from long ago quite what's in there (must buy book one day), and not sure the whole thing has to come to bits to check it out. But I'm not putting a(nother) one way spring-loaded ball valve in there, unless the default setting is 'open'! Am half-way through knocking up a steel feed-line tap with a tapered tip that seals off the flow when screwed in, when it also earths the mag . .  . Q is, will it fit or am I going to have to make a spaghetti-like mess of the plumbing . . . and can I make some nice grooves to hold O rings to stop the thing leaking out of the screw-in bit. Modern in-line plumbing taps with the rotating metal ball system of closure (rather than a rubbery pad that cuts the flow) seem to have 'orrible nylon seals in them, which is an invitation for trouble as they might melt, stop working effectively, and worse, send a gooey mess down the feed line. Brass on brass is what we really need, like a decent old-fashioned gas tap. Used one of them the other week to replace a leaking petrol tap - taper-needle principle again, and it is amazingly effective and petrol proof, with no seals, no cork, no plastic - just good ole fashioned metal to metal. Problem (apart from offending purists cos it looks different) is that the high pressure gas regulator I started with from the box of odds and ends cost someone far more than any fuel tap we're ever likely to see - and I only had one lying around. Ah well, time for (more) beer, which will be the cause of any b**** in this offering . . . Groily
Bill

Online groily

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Re: in-line oil taps and filters
« Reply #22 on: 08.11. 2007 10:58 »
here's a prototype in line oil tap . . . haven't figured exactly where to put it for easy access yet, but it'll work i reckon. Groily
Bill