Author Topic: Going Electronic MK ll  (Read 4562 times)

Offline Gerry

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Going Electronic MK ll
« on: 30.03. 2014 05:22 »
Hi all, Don't know whether I should post here or in the engine site!! I just fitted Boyer electronic ignition to my 59 A10 and machined up my own housing to fit it. Got the Boyer years ago and had it fitted to the engine of my B40 sitting in the shed waiting to go into the frame. Was second hand so a bit risky. Cut the white wire from the DVR2 reg/cutout to give me 12 volts and got a 12 volt 35/35 halogen headlight bulb and changed all the other bulbs to 12 volt. Now, before fitting the Boyer I was having trouble with a bad misfire and also a complete shut down. (Trailer job home). So this is why I ventured into the electronic as I thought the problem was the mag armature capacitor breaking down when hot.
What is happening now is the left side cylinder is firing but very weak with a very soft exhaust note but the right side is firing strong with a beautiful exhaust note. So bought another set of new plugs and made no difference. Swapped the leads over to the plugs and still the same on the left hand cyl'. As its wasted spark didn't matter which lead went to which cylinder so that cancelled out the plug caps, leads and coils. Checked compression and am getting 150psi on both cylinders (only done 46 miles since build so not run in yet.) I have fitted a Amal 280 concentric carb' which the bike did run on ok at the start. A friend suggested it might be a broken oil ring but there is absolutely no smoke from either exhaust. I am at my wits end and can't think of anything that would cause this problem other than carb' bias, but seems a bit much for that. Any suggestions guys?

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Re: Going Electronic MK ll
« Reply #1 on: 30.03. 2014 06:12 »
G'day Gerry, you don't say what the plugs look like. Have you strobed the timing on both sides? It doesn't take much of a knock to miss align the coils or magnets.
Bias might be cause (plug colour will tell). My '51 needed a anti bias gasket to richen the right side and ran great for years. Just recently it was faltering on the left so I needed to turn the gasket over, all good again. *dunno*
Cheers
'51 A7 plunger, '57 A7SS now A10CR, '76 XT500, '77 AG175 '83 CB1100F, '81 CB900F project.
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Muskys Plunger A7

Offline Gerry

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Re: Going Electronic MK ll
« Reply #2 on: 30.03. 2014 07:56 »
Hi Muskrat, Yeah I have heard of the bias being a problem and haven't got around to strobing, means taking the clutch cover off again!!! I am just about up to here with the thing. What I did do just now though was start it up and close the choke to see if that might give it a better combustion......but no, no difference whatsoever and I thought at least it might be too rich with full choke. Seems strange to me that the choke wouldn't make any difference at all even on the good side!! It starts and idles pretty good other that it sounds more like a single than a twin. Will do the taper gasket thing when I can get one, where are they available from? Cheers and thanks mate. Gerry

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Re: Going Electronic MK ll
« Reply #3 on: 30.03. 2014 08:20 »
Maybe the choke slide isn't going all the way to the bottom. Does it have enough cable to get there. Or is it sticking up?
I made my own bias gasket out of a 1/8" insulator. Just rubbed it down to 1/16" on one side with w&d on a piece of glass.
Throw some new plugs in and let it idle for 5 minutes ( I put a fan in front), and see what the plugs look like.
Cheers
'51 A7 plunger, '57 A7SS now A10CR, '76 XT500, '77 AG175 '83 CB1100F, '81 CB900F project.
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Muskys Plunger A7

Offline orabanda

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Re: Going Electronic MK ll
« Reply #4 on: 30.03. 2014 09:42 »
I bought my anti-bias gaskets from Cake Street Classics; most of my bikes have needed the gasket (always leaner on the LH side.

I agree with musky; strobe it!

Richard

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Re: Going Electronic MK ll
« Reply #5 on: 30.03. 2014 10:44 »
With any suspected Boyer problem, try directly connecting + and - of a battery in a car, to the + and - of the Boyer box.
If that helps, then you know your problem is in powering the Boyer: battery, dynamo, switchgear, fuseholder, earths, somewhere in there!

How does it run with the pipes/silencers removed?

And for goodness sake do the strobe timing!  Right now you have no idea what the spark is timed to.

I don't know what a 280 carburettor is (928?), but it will need to be tuned to your engine. Do you still have the old carb?

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Re: Going Electronic MK ll
« Reply #6 on: 30.03. 2014 10:57 »
This is how I have my plunger set up for a timing light. Each line is 5 degrees. Yes I know the marks are at 35-40 I was trying some av gas +  *eek*.
Cheers
'51 A7 plunger, '57 A7SS now A10CR, '76 XT500, '77 AG175 '83 CB1100F, '81 CB900F project.
Australia
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Online beezermacc

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Re: Going Electronic MK ll
« Reply #7 on: 30.03. 2014 17:38 »
I would suggest borrowing a good magneto of somebody else's bike which is known to run well. That will tell you if your problem is electrical or elsewhere.
Priory Magnetos Ltd - A10 spares, magneto and dynamo refurbs. www.priorymagnetos.co.uk

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Re: Going Electronic MK ll
« Reply #8 on: 30.03. 2014 19:53 »
I would suggest borrowing a good magneto of somebody else's bike which is known to run well.

Good idea.  I think it would go a long way towards solving the mystery,  but....


not the easiest thing to borrow.

Online chaterlea25

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Re: Going Electronic MK ll
« Reply #9 on: 30.03. 2014 21:58 »
HI Gerry,
Have you checked the valve clearances?
Also check for a broken or soft valve spring as this was the issue I came across on an A10 with similar problems to yours,
This was after swoping mag and carb from a known good bike
HTH
John
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Re: Going Electronic MK ll
« Reply #10 on: 30.03. 2014 22:07 »
Looks to me like it's not sparking well every other cycle.
Don't know if it can be done with a Boyer unit, but if so, have you tried turning the trigger plate 180°?
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Offline Gerry

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Re: Going Electronic MK ll
« Reply #11 on: 31.03. 2014 00:38 »
OK Guys, thanks for all the input. Firstly I must check the choke slide as Wombat says, then obtain or make a tapered gasket/spacer, tuning is not possible until I can get it to run properly on both cyl's., the battery is brand new and fully charged showing 12.7 volts so I don't think that's the problem, broken valve spring could be it though but wouldn't that give me a reduced compression? I will re check the valve clearances though when checking the springs. Having a wasted spark means it fires the same cylinder from the same Boyer coil on the stator so having swapped the leads should have eliminated caps, leads and coils. (Same as turning the stator plate 180 degrees?) The only other thing I have done is swap the mag twice, the first time it turned out to be caused by loose points!!! the second time was due to not being able to see a spark on the left hand new plug which turned out, when I had the mag on the bench, to be sparking but right up inside the body of the plug. I used a drill to drive it. Which leads me to believe the fouled plug was caused by the same problem I have now. The first time I had it on the road it started missing under load up hill and finally carked it and had to get my son to fetch the trailer. The second and last time it went well for about 6 or 7 miles and then started to miss again just after leaving an 80 zone and in a 50 zone, so limped it home and fitted the Boyer. Both times it was well warmed up but had not been over stressed. I could have had this problem right from the start as its hard to pick up on until removing the right hand plug lead. The misfiring could be because there is not enough combustion to keep the plug clean. Oh yes...sorry I meant 928 carb' which is same size as the inlet. The other thing that worries me is that when I machined the housing for the Boyer rotor and stator, I made a mistake and machined the housing out a bit too much allowing the stator to foul the magnets on the rotor so had to realign the stator by feel which means the magnets could be passing the coil post on one side closer than the other!! WHY DIDN'T I TAKE UP GOLF OR MUSIC!!!  Cheers and thanks again guys. Will keep you up to date as and when things hit me in the face. Gerry

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Re: Going Electronic MK ll
« Reply #12 on: 31.03. 2014 08:07 »
Quote
WHY DIDN'T I TAKE UP GOLF OR MUSIC!!! 

You'll know you made the correct decision when she's running right ...  stick with it....  *wink2*
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Re: Going Electronic MK ll
« Reply #13 on: 31.03. 2014 13:01 »

Quote
t. Firstly I must check the choke slide as Wombat says,
. *lol* *lol* *beer*

  Sounds like one of those 'pull it apart, find nuthin' wrong, put it back together, and right as rain- like nothin' ever happened' type situations....??
 maybe have a cup of tea or two, then beer and try yet another set of plugs...?? they can be cantankerous..?
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Re: Going Electronic MK ll
« Reply #14 on: 31.03. 2014 20:31 »
Turn the stator plate 180 and see if the problem swaps sides.
Cheers
'51 A7 plunger, '57 A7SS now A10CR, '76 XT500, '77 AG175 '83 CB1100F, '81 CB900F project.
Australia
Muskys Plunger A7