Author Topic: wrong headlight or bad fork shrouds?  (Read 2398 times)

Online chaterlea25

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Re: wrong headlight or bad fork shrouds?
« Reply #15 on: 07.05. 2017 14:01 »
Hi All,
If taper roller steering head bearings are fitted then a gap will appear between the shrouds and top yoke
Even with "original" shrouds you need to do some work to get them to,
Not "grind" on the seal holders
and also not gouge the mudguard *problem* *problem* *problem*

John
1961 Super Rocket
1963 RGS (ongoing)

Online Rex

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Re: wrong headlight or bad fork shrouds?
« Reply #16 on: 07.05. 2017 17:20 »
Hi, a new member here. New to A7/10s but sadly not new to pattern part shite. I reckon we could all write books on this sort of crap (I know I could anyway!)
I think you took the only available course of action, that is to break out the workshop tools and make the stuff fit like it should. I don't understand how pattern part makers turn out such shite....it costs no more to get the h/lamp ears on straight as on the p*ss, so take a bit of care and get it right.
Alternatively, pattern part sellers only sell useable stuff and reject the rest..it can't be that hard?

Online JulianS

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Re: wrong headlight or bad fork shrouds?
« Reply #17 on: 07.05. 2017 19:42 »
Those shrouds are dreadful.

The photo of mine below shows that yours were not made to the same dimensions, the pinch bolt holes being in just the right position and drilled 10mm.

Bought them for ?45 each plus post plus VAT  in August 2013.

I went to BBB, having bought a pair which were found to be 1 inch too short, from another supplier (who no longer advertises)

Danny Page just needs to measure a pair of his shrouds, pinch bolt hole centre to fork shaft centre and compare with a bottom  yoke to see that they are made wrongly.



Offline burtonbikebits

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Re: wrong headlight or bad fork shrouds?
« Reply #18 on: 08.05. 2017 15:58 »
Hi All,

First off, it is great to see a good A7/A10 forum with lots of members!

Lee (Coater87) asked us to take a look at this discussion on his fork shroud issues so we thought it best to respond on here and I will do my best to answer any other questions which have been raised

As mentioned to Lee by email, this is not an issue we have encountered before, but as also mentioned, that doesn?t mean that there cannot be a first time. I see that another user of this forum has had an issue with fitting, however if we are not told, we cannot improve the items. We do test items, but to test every single item we are sending is not viable. We stock over 30,000 lines! These fork shrouds are made in England, and we actually have a new batch on order, we are now down to the last set. The previous 48 pairs of this batch have sold without any REPORTED issues. As a user stated earlier in this thread, these bikes are 60 plus years old, many bikes have had parts replaced etc over the years and so in some situations, a part which fits straight on to one bike, will not fit another. I am not saying that this is the case with these brackets but it is a challenge which we sometimes face. +99% of our orders are without any issue

We have taken the time to loosely assemble the brackets to a yoke and headlamp. Photos attached. We have also used the spacers which we believe should be fitted and the headlamp mounts perfectly.The Lucas part numbers are as follows:

LU112201 Bolt
LU137141 Spacer (not available so we use 68-5108)

The above is taken from a Lucas catalogue and the above are shown as included with the headlamp, hence not in the BSA parts book. We do have some of these genuine headlamp brackets which have a spacer welded into the bracket, but also others which don?t. There are no changes to part numbers though.

I understand that these things are often urgent, due to the restoration job being in progress, however when we are asked to investigate an issue; looking over photos, measurements and pulling items off the shelves to test and measure, it does take time. Lee, you emailed us on Friday 5th, and then complained publically on this forum on Sunday 7th that we didn?t get back to you, I think that this is unfair. We do not work 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, although we do attempt to respond to all enquiries as quickly as possible.

I also stated that you could return the items to us for our investigation, if the item is faulty then we would refund on this. I am unsure as to how else we can resolve the issue?

Shipping charges; you mention that you paid a significant amount to us for shipping these items. Our shipping prices are lower now than they have been for 15 maybe 20 years, due mainly to the amount of parts which we ship overseas. It is now generally cheaper for a USA customer to purchase from us than it is for a UK customer due to lack of taxes.

We work very hard to source parts which are unavailable elsewhere, whether it be finding NOS items, or manufacturing items in the UK. Unfortunately it is often very difficult to get items made in the small batches required for our niche to the quality and price required. We are enthusiasts, and want to keep as many of these bikes on the road as possible and we do try our best to get things right wherever possible! It is the nature of these bikes that some items don?t fit without some form of fettling, but that is all part of the fun isn?t it?

Again, I am unsure on how you want us to resolve this?

Regards,
Danny

Offline muskrat

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Re: wrong headlight or bad fork shrouds?
« Reply #19 on: 08.05. 2017 21:57 »
G'day Danny, thank you for your response. *welcome*
We need to find a bog stock A7/10 as it left the factory or a BSA produced photo/brochure showing the headlight ears/fork shrouds to put the matter to bed.
My 51 A7 was bought of the original owner and it didn't have the spacers (came from the factory with the earlier rigid tool box). My 57 A7SS didn't have them either. I can't recall ever seeing the spacers fitted to an A7/10 but I haven't seen as many as some members.
Obviously you do care, shown by your response and we appreciate suppliers manufacturing obsolete parts (especially Made In England). Unfortunately not all strive for quality over cost. I would pay double for a part to fit straight out of the box than one I had to "fettle".
Cheers 
'51 A7 plunger, '57 A7SS now A10CR,  '83 CB1100F, .
Australia
Muskys Plunger A7

Offline burtonbikebits

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Re: wrong headlight or bad fork shrouds?
« Reply #20 on: 09.05. 2017 09:58 »
Thanks Muskrat!
We absolutely want parts to fit easily for our customers and that is why, where possible, we have parts made by our trusted manufacturers in the UK. However, as mentioned earlier, a part which fits perfectly on 99 bikes, doesn't fit on number 100. That one item which does not fit is the one which generally gets mentioned on forums etc online. That is part of business now, but we obviously want to improve to limit that as much as possible. It is interesting that of the issues we have with parts not fitting, or even not being up to the quality standards of customers, quite a high %age are genuine NOS items. I think that shows how difficult it is to get right for everyone! It is important to remember that these bikes were not all exactly the same when they were assembled (have you ever seen the factory footage of exhaust systems being fitted with a long iron bar and a rubber mallet?). After this amount of time there are bound to be further discrepancies. That isn't to say that every part we have ever sent out is 100% accurate!

As for the spacer, the standard bolts LU112201 are 1 1/4" under head. Without any spacer that is a very long bolt which goes some distance into the headlight shell.. Sometimes applying logic to things like this doesn't work, but it does seem strange to have such a long bolt if a spacer isn't used. Do your headlamp brackets have a spacer on them?

The pinch bolts should be 5/16", however we have in the past seen later A65 bottom yokes used, which have 3/8" bolts. This obviously causes problems with the brackets.

The headlamps should also have 5/16" nuts in them to take the LU112201. Many of the aftermarket headlamps use a metric nut and so different bolts are fitted, which again can lead to problems. It seems that Coater87's headlamp doesn't have any nuts in it? I believe that this is also an aftermarket headlamp, again it is very hard to tell but the mounting flats seem to be at an angle?

Online Greybeard

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Re: wrong headlight or bad fork shrouds?
« Reply #21 on: 09.05. 2017 10:44 »
As for the spacer, the standard bolts LU112201 are 1 1/4" under head. Without any spacer that is a very long bolt which goes some distance into the headlight shell.. Sometimes applying logic to things like this doesn't work, but it does seem strange to have such a long bolt if a spacer isn't used. Do your headlamp brackets have a spacer on them?
On my plunger that has the cowpat cowl I was suprised at how long the, (new from Draganfly) retaining screws are. No spacers on my setup.

Online JulianS

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Re: wrong headlight or bad fork shrouds?
« Reply #22 on: 09.05. 2017 11:18 »
Danny

I bought a pair of your A10 fork shrouds back in August 2013.

They fitted my 1962 A10 perfectly. Mated with an original Lucas headlight shell which has captive nuts welded on the inside for the fixing bolts. No fettling and definately no spacers needed. Not enough space for a spacer without bending the ears outwards. Would look very odd with spacers.

Looking at mine and then the photos of those of Coater87 they dont look the same part, like the maker has changed the pattern.

Offline coater87

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Re: wrong headlight or bad fork shrouds?
« Reply #23 on: 09.05. 2017 11:55 »
 Danny,

 Notice how the shrouds Trevinoz shows (also purchased from you) dont fit well either, his "look" to the right, and both bells are pinched completely at the leg.

 As I show in the pictures, mine had two completely different angles as far as ear mounting. I had to go from 8 inches wide (you are the only one who believes spacers were used) to seven inches wide and "aim" them for the bike. My right ear was further out than the left ear.

 I really dont think its fair to describe cutting, bending, slotting, then having to strip, weld, and repaint brand new parts as "fettling". And no, it is not fun when you will have to keep pouring money into parts that are described as good quality.

 Your web page for these exact parts states: "not to be confused with poorly fitting Indian copies" *conf*

 If I would have bought them from India, I would have had to do the same work. I just would not have had to pay twice for powder coat or had to strip them, and they would have been cheaper to start with.

 I paid 29 pounds for shipping one way, now if I sent them back and forth to you, it would be 87 pounds in shipping, and still you would believe it best to jam in spacers. So nothing would be accomplished, except me being out even more money.

 Now shipping may be at its cheapest, but its still not inexpensive.

 I wish you would add a top tree and a couple of legs to your set-up. I think you might see these parts in a new light, and might even contact your supplier. Something bad has happen between 2013 and now....

 Lee

Central Wisconsin in the U.S.

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Re: wrong headlight or bad fork shrouds?
« Reply #24 on: 09.05. 2017 12:09 »
I'm suprised that no one has challenged this picture. Surely this headlamp shell is not the correct one; there is no cutout for the switch panel. I've been looking through images of BSA's to try and find evidence of spacers. I found this but the chap is asking if it's correct for his '52 A7: http://www.britbike.com/ubb/bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=print_topic;f=10;t=007803
I've not found any pictures that show spacers.

Online Greybeard

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Re: wrong headlight or bad fork shrouds?
« Reply #25 on: 09.05. 2017 12:17 »
Some random pictures of BSA A series headlamps

Offline burtonbikebits

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Re: wrong headlight or bad fork shrouds?
« Reply #26 on: 09.05. 2017 12:34 »
Hi Lee,

The spacer issue requires more investigation. It seems that nobody here has a spacer fitted, however, the A65 models which use the same size yoke, headlamp and headlamp brackets (albeit shorter) require a spacer as shown in the parts book, which doesn't seem to make any sense.

JulianS, your purchase in 2013 was obviously a different batch, however we are not aware of any changes being made to the jig or process. Again we have sold 48 pairs of this latest batch without any reported problems, it seems that another forum member here had some issues, although different to those experienced by Lee.

With regards to the modifications you have done to the bracket, I think that I should again point out that you first notified us on this by email on Thursday 4th May. We responded on the same day to ask for more information/photos etc. then had an exchange of emails on the Friday where we advised sending them back if you couldn't make them work so that we could investigate. In the meantime over the weekend you have publically stated that we have not responded to you in a timely fashion, and carried out modifications to the part which means we cannot find an issue to the problem. We have carried out some tests and measurements, provided photos and signed up to this forum as requested. I really don't know what else we can do. If an item is faulty then there isn't a great deal we can do without having it back! As mentioned, if there is a fault found with an item, then the shipping would be reimbursed and if possible, a suitable replacement sent. There is always a possibility of a one off problem part, even in a small batch, these are small quantity items which are made to a price which is acceptable for this market.

Greybeard, you are correct, the headlamp shell we have used is not the standard one (we are out of stock), it is however the same size. And yes, that headlamp on the post here: http://www.britbike.com/ubb/bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=print_topic;f=10;t=007803 does show spacers as we believe they should have.

As mentioned, we have a new batch of these on order, so will investigate more with the last remaining set, and also dig out the genuine samples for comparison to make sure that we aren't missing anything. However, if we are to change the jig, would that mean that 48 out of 50 would not fit?  *conf*


Online Jules

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Re: wrong headlight or bad fork shrouds?
« Reply #27 on: 09.05. 2017 12:39 »
I agree, I've never seen a headlamp mounted with spacers like that, its looks wrong (and ugly!)......

Online KiwiGF

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Re: wrong headlight or bad fork shrouds?
« Reply #28 on: 09.05. 2017 12:51 »
It's simple really, what we as customers want is:

Parts that fit
Suppliers that refund all costs including overseas shipping when they stuff up
Suppliers that will admit a part is duff, when it is

Doesn't sound unreasonable does it....

Until suppliers step up I guess we will tend to buy locally (even in nz there are a couple of brit bike parts suppliers) and search out used original parts on eBay etc, even when they cost silly money!

I really struggle with the issue that when a supplier stuffs up the customer is left out of pocket due to incurring shipping costs......it's just wrong.
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Offline burtonbikebits

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Re: wrong headlight or bad fork shrouds?
« Reply #29 on: 09.05. 2017 13:06 »
Hi KiwiGF,

Please see my post above, if parts are found to be incorrect, we refund return shipping.

Yes there are some dealers in NZ, Australia and all over the world. We supply many of them with parts too! I think that the Classic Bike community is very lucky to have a network of parts dealers who make it easier to restore and maintain these bikes.

We have thousands of happy customers all over the world, however hard we try, and it seems other dealers who are getting a hard time, it is impossible to please everybody, no matter what industry. Parts availability is better now than it has ever been, and this is down to dealers investing significant amounts of money in slow moving stock which can sometimes sit on the shelves for years before any return is made. That is the business we are in, and we enjoy seeing photos of restored bikes owned by our customers.

We will investigate the above issues with the headlamp brackets before we produce any more. I will attempt to update this page with the outcome.