Author Topic: Electronic Ignition  (Read 12234 times)

Offline muskrat

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Re: Electronic Ignition
« Reply #15 on: 14.04. 2010 20:18 »
G'day all,
            i have had no problems with the Boyer. The only time it gives trouble is when there is a fault in the wiring or battery. The timing goes all over the shop. The advance peaks at about 4000 rpm, but I do think it starts advancing a little too early.
Once I finally get the cafe sorted out I'm planing to re-do the '51 back to almost srd, but retain the 12 volt and elec-ign and get one that fits in the magy body. I think I'll try the Pazon.
To each his own. That's what makes this a great place and be able to bounce ideas off others who may have been down that path. It's great to keep them going in whatever form we wish.
Cheers
'51 A7 plunger, '57 A7SS now A10CR, '76 XT500, '77 AG175 '83 CB1100F, '81 CB900F project.
Australia
Muskys Plunger A7

Offline Rocketerik

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Re: Electronic Ignition
« Reply #16 on: 04.05. 2010 10:35 »
Electronic system on 60 super Rocket.
To add the diversity on the subject I will describe the Runtronic ignition.
You will see in the pic a black box 4 by 4 cm in size. From the box goes two leads to the spark plugs. On the left side of the box you can see 6 volts coming in. On the other side there is a lead going to a sensor placed where the mag normally lives. Two small magnets at 180 degrees apart rotate past the sensor at half engine speed like the Lucas mag. ( See New member from Sweden). There are no outside coils at all. Advance curve is built in to the box.
The power it needs is very small ,much less than 1 amp. This system was designed for model engines but seems to work well in bigger ones as well. For model aviation use the the small weight is very wellcome.
Initially I used the sensor placed alongside the crankshaft in the primary case but  got problems as the small magnet(5x5mm) got hot from the engine warming up.
I am not very good at electronics myself. The good sparks that come out from those spark plugs with that kind of input energy is magic to me.
The described system has worked for around 1000km for me so far.It is fed from Lucas 6 volt dynamo through 6 volt gel battery.
I am your test pilot.
Erik
  Erik
A10 Super Rocket 1960  Victor 441 1969  Bmw R80 G/S 81  HD-Aermacchi 350 1973

Offline muskrat

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Re: Electronic Ignition
« Reply #17 on: 04.05. 2010 19:55 »
Thanks Erik,
                looks very compact with the coil and control box in one. It will be interesting to see how it performs long term. Do they come in 12 volt ? I see you use a V-reg11 which is also a 6 to 12 volt converter so you could go that way if the ign unit allowed.
Cheers
'51 A7 plunger, '57 A7SS now A10CR, '76 XT500, '77 AG175 '83 CB1100F, '81 CB900F project.
Australia
Muskys Plunger A7

Offline Rocketerik

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Re: Electronic Ignition
« Reply #18 on: 05.05. 2010 17:38 »

Its available for 6-24 volts.  I believe mine is one like that but going safe staying with 6 volt as it works pretty well with Halogen and LEDs everywhere possible. I am also very interested in how long it will last. By the way it needs 250 mAmps at 12000 sparks a minute.
Good sparks everyone.
Erik
  Erik
A10 Super Rocket 1960  Victor 441 1969  Bmw R80 G/S 81  HD-Aermacchi 350 1973

Offline mike667

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Re: Electronic Ignition
« Reply #19 on: 05.05. 2010 18:23 »
Electronic system on 60 super Rocket.
To add the diversity on the subject I will describe the Runtronic ignition.
You will see in the pic a black box 4 by 4 cm in size. From the box goes two leads to the spark plugs. On the left side of the box you can see 6 volts coming in. On the other side there is a lead going to a sensor placed where the mag normally lives. Two small magnets at 180 degrees apart rotate past the sensor at half engine speed like the Lucas mag. ( See New member from Sweden). There are no outside coils at all. Advance curve is built in to the box.
The power it needs is very small ,much less than 1 amp. This system was designed for model engines but seems to work well in bigger ones as well. For model aviation use the the small weight is very wellcome.
Initially I used the sensor placed alongside the crankshaft in the primary case but  got problems as the small magnet(5x5mm) got hot from the engine warming up.
I am not very good at electronics myself. The good sparks that come out from those spark plugs with that kind of input energy is magic to me.
The described system has worked for around 1000km for me so far.It is fed from Lucas 6 volt dynamo through 6 volt gel battery.
I am your test pilot.
Erik

interesting - any idea about how the advance curve works? or am i missing something

Offline muskrat

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Re: Electronic Ignition
« Reply #20 on: 05.05. 2010 20:37 »
Good ? Mike. It must be in the magic black box the same as the Boyer/Pazon/Trispark. The trouble is wot u get is wot u got, no way of tinkering like with a bob weight system. A friend suggested it has something to do with the magnets and coils in the sensor. I'm not sure but would love to find out.
Cheers
'51 A7 plunger, '57 A7SS now A10CR, '76 XT500, '77 AG175 '83 CB1100F, '81 CB900F project.
Australia
Muskys Plunger A7

Offline Rocketerik

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Re: Electronic Ignition
« Reply #21 on: 05.05. 2010 22:43 »
When I fitted the system I had a degree disc fitted on the crankshaft.Also used strobelight. When revved as much as I dared  the spark went up to 35 degrees and down to something reasonable like 5 or 10 on tickover.At that time I was satisfied with that. I am happy with the way it runs on the road. Low tickover and no pinking when accelerating,and the same spark timing on both cylinders. I have not been riding very fast yet ,speeds like 75 mph has been my maximum so far. A slipping clutch has to be solved too!  I read in the makers paper that  full advance is at 5500 crankshaft speed. On my bike that should correpond to 11000 rpm ! Ideally the sensor should be on the crankshaft.
I have nothing against a good magneto,but till then I am very happy as it is.
Erik
  Erik
A10 Super Rocket 1960  Victor 441 1969  Bmw R80 G/S 81  HD-Aermacchi 350 1973

Offline muskrat

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Re: Electronic Ignition
« Reply #22 on: 06.05. 2010 11:15 »
You mean camshaft. At the crank you will get spark at BTDC and BBDC. This would mean a spark while inlet valve is open !!! Not good. I hope I'm wrong !
Cheers
'51 A7 plunger, '57 A7SS now A10CR, '76 XT500, '77 AG175 '83 CB1100F, '81 CB900F project.
Australia
Muskys Plunger A7

Offline Rocketerik

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Re: Electronic Ignition
« Reply #23 on: 07.05. 2010 09:45 »
Muskrat
To clarify,there are two small magnets in the rotor driven from the normal magneto gear. This produces sparks in both plugs ,be it in compression or exhaust phase.  When mounted on the crank I used only one magnet to produce the same sparks. This extra spark does not affect  the running as far as I can see or hear.
Cheers
Erik
  Erik
A10 Super Rocket 1960  Victor 441 1969  Bmw R80 G/S 81  HD-Aermacchi 350 1973

Online bsa-bill

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Re: Electronic Ignition
« Reply #24 on: 07.05. 2010 10:02 »
You mean camshaft. At the crank you will get spark at BTDC and BBDC.

No - on the crank, surely you get a spark at BTDC on the compression stroke and again BTDC on the exhaust stroke, or have I missed something ( not unknown )
All the best - Bill
1961 Flash - stock, reliable, steady, fantastic for shopping
1959 Rocket Gold Flash - blinged and tarted up  would have seizure if taken to  Tesco

Online groily

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Re: Electronic Ignition
« Reply #25 on: 07.05. 2010 10:29 »
don't think you missed anything bill!
Lots of engines run with dead sparks using double-ended HT coils. It's an easy way of running a twin with one contact breaker (or pick-up for that matter).
Does get folk into discussion about plug polarity and all that from time to time - ie which way is the spark jumping the gap on the plug. Some say, if they run opposite polarity, it's good to swap the leads round now and then and give them both a dose of 'wrong' way running, but I dunno. (In any case, unless there are any funny issues to do with inductance or something I don't understand, it should be possible to make a twin spark coil that delivers same polarity sparks each end, if the windings are correctly 'handed' inside. Not sure how the coil works on my one dead spark bike - it just does and long may it.) 
Bill

Offline Rocketerik

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Re: Electronic Ignition
« Reply #26 on: 07.05. 2010 10:35 »
Yes absolutely.
BTDC compr.stroke and BTDC on the exhaust. Hope this makes sense.
Head spinning around. (my head).
Cheers
Erik
  Erik
A10 Super Rocket 1960  Victor 441 1969  Bmw R80 G/S 81  HD-Aermacchi 350 1973

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Re: Electronic Ignition
« Reply #27 on: 07.05. 2010 11:49 »
You think your head is spinning !!, I've just finished filling in my tax return on-line for 2009/2010 *problem*.
To be honest it was not too bad until the last bit where it works out how much you owe them, didn't seem right but it seems that they assume you will earn the same next year so they add in some of what you might owe next tax year ( although that bit is not due until 2011 ).
Now to pay my dues ( of course I could go Greek -apologies to all tax paying Greeks )
All the best - Bill
1961 Flash - stock, reliable, steady, fantastic for shopping
1959 Rocket Gold Flash - blinged and tarted up  would have seizure if taken to  Tesco

Offline muskrat

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Re: Electronic Ignition
« Reply #28 on: 07.05. 2010 14:32 »
OK Erik, got it now. you didn't mention only using one magnet so you can see where I was confused, as if using both on the crank I would have been right. (don't tell the missus, that's not allowed)
Cheers
'51 A7 plunger, '57 A7SS now A10CR, '76 XT500, '77 AG175 '83 CB1100F, '81 CB900F project.
Australia
Muskys Plunger A7

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Re: Electronic Ignition
« Reply #29 on: 08.05. 2010 14:05 »
Muskrat
Sorry if I misled you. Will keep you informed about how it works out in the future.
Erik
  Erik
A10 Super Rocket 1960  Victor 441 1969  Bmw R80 G/S 81  HD-Aermacchi 350 1973