Author Topic: Electronic Ignition  (Read 12231 times)

Offline olev

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Electronic Ignition
« on: 25.07. 2009 00:11 »
Gday Rocky,
Want to tell us about your electronic ignition?
I see the original magneto body is still there.
Are the pick-ups in the magneto where the points normally are? and what is it like to ride and tune?
cheers

Offline rocket man

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Re: Electronic Ignition
« Reply #1 on: 25.07. 2009 22:12 »
ok here goes electronic egnition first ove all
the pickups are in the mag its an srm kit and youl need to
covert to 12 volts wich can be done bye fitting a belt dinamo
drive kit which ups the dinamo speed and here are a few pics ove the kit

Offline Mosin

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Re: Electronic Ignition
« Reply #2 on: 26.07. 2009 06:04 »
This looks interesting. What sort of price are you paying for these kits?
1960 A7 Shooting Star
1959 D3 Bantam
1994 Triumph Trident 900

North West England

Offline rocket man

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Re: Electronic Ignition
« Reply #3 on: 26.07. 2009 11:08 »
 SRM  have produced an electronic ignition conversion kit for the LUCAS K2F and K2FC magnetos. The kit has been designed to retain the original look of the magneto and yet have all the advantages of the Boyer MICRO-POWER ignition system. This system is used because of the low power consumption of the electronics, an important factor with the limited power of a LUCAS dynamo (60 Watts). The electronics are also very compact allowing them to be easily ?hidden? on the bike. A special sensor unit, manufactured at SRM, replaces the original magneto armature. This unit provides the timing signal for the ignition box and small dual output coil. The electronic ignition system provides an extra high energy spark at start up, precise ignition timing, ?mapped? advance curve and a high power coil.

The kit is simple enough for fitting at home (no machining is required) and is supplied with all the parts required and comprehensive instructions.

These kits have a proven reliability record and many customers are surprised at how much the electronic ignition has improved their machine. The kit requires a 12v electrical system but can be wired for positive or negative earth (If you have a 6v system this can be easily converted to 12v). its 300 british pounds

Offline Mosin

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Re: Electronic Ignition
« Reply #4 on: 26.07. 2009 13:00 »
Sounds good (although my wallet won't run to £300 at the current time). What sort of price is the dynamo belt drive kit?
1960 A7 Shooting Star
1959 D3 Bantam
1994 Triumph Trident 900

North West England

Online Triton Thrasher

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Re: Electronic Ignition
« Reply #5 on: 26.07. 2009 19:02 »
I wouldn't tell anyone how they should do up their own bike, but Boyer Micro Power was a total disaster on my bike and I am not unique in that.  Ask on WWW.triplesonline.com

If people are pleased with their Micro Power, that's good, but are they doing many miles?

Be aware that the current draw may be low (<1 amp), but that's at high rpm when it wouldn't matter- current draw is several amps at idle.  Also, all connections, switch contacts and the battery voltage must be perfect or the ignition goes crazy.  I found that ignition switches had to be replaced regularly under winter conditions.  Don't bother using the cheap crimp connectors supplied in kits by Boyer; they are not up to the job.  Their bent brass HT terminals are rubbish too.  When the blue box failed completely and Boyer were unable to tell me what was wrong, they offered to sell me another one for £110, but I declined.

Offline rocket man

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Re: Electronic Ignition
« Reply #6 on: 26.07. 2009 20:35 »
ive had a total rewire and my dinamo has been totaly reconditiond i also have 12 volt electrics so i havint had eany truble with my boyer kit and im not telling
enyone what to do with there bike i also only use mine in good weather
because i want to keep her in good condition ive spent a small fortune on her
but shes worth it  *smile*

Offline rocket man

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Re: Electronic Ignition
« Reply #7 on: 26.07. 2009 20:42 »
the belt drive kit is about 85 pounds

Offline olev

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Re: Electronic Ignition
« Reply #8 on: 27.07. 2009 07:27 »
The couple of old fogeys I know who use manual advance magnetos only use them for starting.
They then wind them to full advance and leave them there. Maybe you can do that with old sad singles.
I always believed the auto advance on our twins gives full advance at 3000rpm and Orabanda confirmed this during a dyno test.
The curves I've seen for Boyer and Pazon just keep going up (more and more advance) with higher revs which is logical, I think.
a few people on this forum have or have had electronic ignition on various machines, so I ask them, aside from any thing else, is there any difference in the ride at say 3500rpm, 4000rpm and at valve bounce.
cheers

Online Triton Thrasher

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Re: Electronic Ignition
« Reply #9 on: 27.07. 2009 08:38 »
The manual advance on most bikes, singles or twins, is only retarded for starting and sometimes to get a good slow idle or a low-speed crawl in traffic.  There are enthusiasts who like to twiddle the lever at other times, but there's little need.

As for auto-advance and electronic advance, fully advanced at 3000 rpm is about right for an old twin. The Boyer is actually pretty nearly fully advanced by then too, so there isn't a performance difference (not that I can detect). 

I don't know exactly why, but the correct fully advanced timing figure seems to be the same from 3000rpm, right up  to full revs.

There is no doubt that electronic ignition gives better timing control at high rpm than points.  I expect that practically all successful racers use electronic ignition. 

The New Zealand-made Trispark system gets a much better press than Boyer these days.  Has anyone fitted it into a mag-replacement casting?

I use a mag now, because however flawed,  I believe that for a dynamo-equipped bike in road use, it is the least of several evils.  But that's the great thing about a discussion forum- you're not trapped by some pub bore (me) battering you with one set of prejudices.  Other people have different experience, different requirements and different opinions.  Just be careful of pro- Boyer, or pro-Alton advice from people who sell them.  Also beware of the people who love modifications for their own sake.  They may be happy with an interesting, event-filled biking experience, while you might find that original standard specification lets you just travel around reliably.

Online BSA_54A10

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Re: Electronic Ignition
« Reply #10 on: 27.07. 2009 10:42 »
Triton got it right.
The magneto is more than adequite for a slow reving motor like an A 7 or 10.
Once you go electronic you have added another level of complexity because the bike is now 100% dependent upon the generating system being top notch. Also any electrical glitch like a short in the brake switch will stop you dead in your tracks.
So to any electronic ignition price add a complete over haul of the dynamo.
The EP3L in its' standard form is only good for 80 watts when it was new and the magnets were at full strength. The voltage makes no difference to the output, 6V or 12V it will still only put out 80W.
A 65's went from 80 to 100 to 120 Watts and they were still short of electrons.

I am not trying to be a modification Nazi but you need to have a good think about it.
When it is all said and done it is your bike and if 16" rims with 8" tyres, S&S carb hanging out the side, ape hangers and a fluro green paint job gets your juices flowing then by all means do it
Bike Beesa
Trevor

Offline MikeN

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Re: Electronic Ignition
« Reply #11 on: 27.07. 2009 11:07 »
the belt drive kit is about 85 pounds

Try Tony Hayward who makes them for SRM .
He sold me mine considerably cheaper than SRM sell them.
If you ring him he is always prepered to talk to you and explain specifications  etc

http://www.motorcyclewebsite.com/home/a0_T/a0_TO/i99_Tony_Hayward

Ive also had 2 of his superb belt drive primary kits.
Mike


Offline olev

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Re: Electronic Ignition
« Reply #12 on: 27.07. 2009 22:03 »
The Alanticgreen website has analysed Boyers in depth.
They are still advancing the spark at 2500rpm distributor speed = 5000rpm.
The attached link is from Pazon in NZ so might be a bit one sided (I think Trispark are in Adelaide?)

http://www.pazon.com/files/PDF/info1/PAZONvBOYER3.pdf

The ignition is still advancing when the revs are through the roof.(and I think they should)

and Trev, not so much a modification nut but getting with the times.
Its a bit like the old Ducati quote 'Turning riders into mechanics for 40 years.'
Its been a hell of a long time since i've been under the bonnet of a car with a timing light and dwell meter and I don't miss it at all.
I haven't identified a decent electronic alternative yet but it'll be on in a 'flash' when I do (pun intended)
cheers

Offline Mosin

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Re: Electronic Ignition
« Reply #13 on: 14.04. 2010 11:42 »
As mentioned in other threads, I have just fitted a Pazon Surefire ignition system hosed in a magneto replacement casting onto my A7ss.

The reasoning behind this was twofold:

  • My hand was forced by the fact that my magneto was destroyed and I needed to find some way of generating a spark. Had the mag been fine then I probably would not have changed it.
  • The bike was bought with the intention of me using it as a mode of transport and to get me too and from work on a near daily basis in anything but the worst weather, rather than just being used for leisure runs at weekends. As such I felt that the increased reliability offered by an electronic ignition outweighed the nostalgia feel of keeping it original. (incidentally, my Bantam is 100% original and will stay that way, but I bought the A7 to use)

As I am still running the bike in I am not in a position to be able to comment on the running at higher revs just yet. However, the improvements in starting and at tickover are collosal. Over the past six years I have had both hips replaced and always found starting the bike to be very hard work (although this may have been to some extent because the crank was in suce a poor state). This was always a huge worry when riding slowly in traffic that the bike would stall and I would not be able to get her going again. Now all that is required is the most half-hearted prod on the kickstart and she leaps into life from either hot or cold. I've converted to 12v and have a halogen at the front and LEDs everywhere else. I have retained the original chain drive on the dynamo and will wait to see how I get on with it before considering uprating to a belt of some description.

First impressions are very favourable and so far I am very pleased with the system, however, I recognise that it is still early days. Once I have used it a bit I will be able to offer more detailed feedback.
1960 A7 Shooting Star
1959 D3 Bantam
1994 Triumph Trident 900

North West England

Offline tombeau

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Re: Electronic Ignition
« Reply #14 on: 14.04. 2010 13:43 »
that's the great thing about a discussion forum- you're not trapped by some pub bore (me) battering you with one set of prejudices.  Other people have different experience, different requirements and different opinions.  Just be careful of pro- Boyer, or pro-Alton advice from people who sell them.  Also beware of the people who love modifications for their own sake.  They may be happy with an interesting, event-filled biking experience, while you might find that original standard specification lets you just travel around reliably.

Brilliantly put TT.
Cheers,
Iain