Author Topic: Electronic Ignition  (Read 12238 times)

Offline wilko

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Re: Electronic Ignition
« Reply #45 on: 15.06. 2010 01:00 »
Sorry Olev, i mean't me as the old fart. Could one use any old lawnmower part?

Offline muskrat

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Re: Electronic Ignition
« Reply #46 on: 15.06. 2010 10:31 »
G'day Olev,
                   looks like you should market them. A lot cheaper and parts at any wreckers.
Cheers
'51 A7 plunger, '57 A7SS now A10CR, '76 XT500, '77 AG175 '83 CB1100F, '81 CB900F project.
Australia
Muskys Plunger A7

Online olev

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Re: Electronic Ignition
« Reply #47 on: 15.06. 2010 12:47 »
Wilko,
I'm the one should be apologising. I knew that.
If you read it again you'll see i was taking the ***.  oops.
I don't know much about mowers but some of the new small engines have some real tricky stuff for ignitions.
Muskrat, yes the parts are cheap and easy to get. I'll wait to see how it works on the bike before getting too carried away. It chucks a good spark on the bench though.

Any of you cockroaches still interested in 'state of origin' football?
Brace yourselves - here it comes again.

Online bsa-bill

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Re: Electronic Ignition
« Reply #48 on: 10.08. 2011 20:21 »
Hi all - as I'm having the usual maggie problems my thought have wandered to this subject of electronic ignition..

Still undecided but the last two years (or more) of trying to get reliable starting on higher compression pistons has led me to question what's best, both my maggies have been reconditioned but neither have delivered reliable warm starting on8.5 or 9.5 pistons, I know other people get them to work but you've got to wonder how long a restored maggie is good for ( in fairness the main maggie was on a shelf for a couple of years before I put it on but still.

So as this subject was around a year ago I thought I'd ask how those of you with electronic ignition were getting on with them a year on
All the best - Bill
1961 Flash - stock, reliable, steady, fantastic for shopping
1959 Rocket Gold Flash - blinged and tarted up  would have seizure if taken to  Tesco

Online RichardL

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Re: Electronic Ignition
« Reply #49 on: 10.08. 2011 21:16 »
Bill,

This won't add anything to the electronic question and I hope I don't regret saying this anytime soon, but I have had reasonable warm-starting sucess on a very old mag and 9:1 pistons; 356 cam (that is, since I stopped flooding the engine with the tickler every time). Other than a basic rebuild without replacing the armature, spark seems to be good from what might be a 56-year-old condenser. I guess my point is that it may not be necessary to give up on the mags. Now, maybe I'm missing something and would find that I get a lot more first-kick starts if only the spark was hotter.

Richard L.
Plan on signing up for the world-wide 2017 DISTINGUISHED GENTLEMAN'S RIDE on September 30, 2018. Watch website at https://www.gentlemansride.com for details.

Offline muskrat

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Re: Electronic Ignition
« Reply #50 on: 10.08. 2011 21:25 »
G'day Bill,
             try 18 years. I got my first one for the racer. When it retired I put it on the '51, it's still there and going strong. I got a new one a couple of years ago for the cafe, I love it but. I would like a programable advance curve same as the dyna2000ip for HD's to try and combat pinging with the high cr.
Both are boyer with mag replacement unit.
Cheers
'51 A7 plunger, '57 A7SS now A10CR, '76 XT500, '77 AG175 '83 CB1100F, '81 CB900F project.
Australia
Muskys Plunger A7

Offline BSA_54A10

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Re: Electronic Ignition
« Reply #51 on: 16.08. 2011 12:02 »
In regards to the Runtronics Ignition units
There is a chap in the US that does a trigger for the units.
Basically they work the same as the old "Atom" ignition modules used in 2 strokes for decades.
The closer the magnet is to the pick up the faster the curve.
A friend of mine has been using one in his Mettese T120 dirt racer for some years.
It works so well he has fitted them to all of his racing mates bikes ( after first blitzing them for two seasons ), and that includes B44's, Cottons, Bullies, Cobras.
The unit is simply a switch  and a solid state DC amplifier with a power transistor attached to the out put leads.
They put out a series of sparks,( 3, I think)  rather than a single big spark so can be fun if you are using a combination strobe / tacho to set idle speed.
Since the advent of reliable solid state electronics there has been no need for energizing a massive lump of iron and hundreds of meters of copper wire to generate a mass of heat and a tiny spark.
Mike gets 17 hours racing from 3 "c" size Ni-Cads.
We were going to market them to motorcyclists but gave up on the idea.
Firstly, because your bike will, for the first time in it's life, actually fire every time without fail, it will run very hot and very very lean so you will have to go up several jet sizes or put big holes in your pistons ( ask me how we found this out ).
This will lead to a massive increase in power out put from the engine such that the standard clutch also can not cope ( same story ).And Then the Trumpy broke a main shaft.
Pommie bike riders being the sort of people they are will naturally ignore these instructions, blow up their motors then claim damages against us so we gave up on the idea.
Also tuning is a problem. The trigger sensor is adjustable both in an arc ( timing ) and radially ( advance ). It is a little tricky to do and considering the amount of trouble that most BSA riders have doing a shit simple thing like installing a Boyer or Pazon marketing it as a "do it your self" modification was not on.
The inventor will not sell us development rights to develope this for motorcycles and marketing has been seeded to an American ( whose name illudes me for the time ) and he is also not interested in any thing but retailing them as is.
They cost in the order of $ 450 Aus which as we all know is way , way , way too expensive for any BSA owner to even think about and then we would have to add fitting & tuning labour costs to it as well.
So there is the dope on Runtronics.
I will be fitting one to the B40 & all the B44's when I get around to putting them on the road
Bike Beesa
Trevor

Offline iansoady

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Re: Electronic Ignition
« Reply #52 on: 16.08. 2011 12:12 »
Don't pull your punches mate, tell us what you really think ;)
Ian.
1962 Golden Flash (arrived)
1955 Velo Viper/Venom (departed)
2004 Triumph Tiger 955i (staying)

Offline BSA_54A10

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Re: Electronic Ignition
« Reply #53 on: 16.08. 2011 12:30 »
Well it was a brilliant idea.
We put a lot of time into it.
We made a drop in replacement electronic ignition that could be installed in about 4 minutes and be almost undectable.
It is also not particularly voltage sensative and will happily work down as low as 4 V and as high as 8V ( 6 V unit ).
Not meaning to sound superior or smart but how many problems can you recall riders having fitting Boyers, or solid state regulators and they are some thing that you can just about do with your eyes closed.
How may time have you seen some one on this list bemoaning that they had to spend $ 200 or more to fix their magnetos ( for the first time in 60 years ).
SO how many here would fork out $ 600 for an ignition system, save speed demons like Musky .
Bike Beesa
Trevor

Offline muskrat

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Re: Electronic Ignition
« Reply #54 on: 16.08. 2011 14:45 »
 Who do I make the cheque out to?
I was looking at $500 for a dyna2000ip and try to modify that (read hacksaw) to fire at 180 instead of 157.5/202.5.
Cheers
'51 A7 plunger, '57 A7SS now A10CR, '76 XT500, '77 AG175 '83 CB1100F, '81 CB900F project.
Australia
Muskys Plunger A7

Offline Rocketerik

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Re: Electronic Ignition
« Reply #55 on: 17.08. 2011 11:08 »
Hello again.
Interesting to read Trevors post on Runtronic. I have been running this system for a few years now. I am not an electronic mastermind so  regarded this system with some scepticism in the beginning. Time will show was my reasoning when fittting it to my 60 Rocket, but
I can report that  it works very well. Good spark with a minimum of electric 6 volt power.My mistake was to fit a Mikuni at the same time, sorted by now.
In the UK the system seems to be available from Weston UK, dealing with model engines and aeroplanes, or Hab electronics here i Sweden.
Erik

  Erik
A10 Super Rocket 1960  Victor 441 1969  Bmw R80 G/S 81  HD-Aermacchi 350 1973

Offline BSA_54A10

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Re: Electronic Ignition
« Reply #56 on: 17.08. 2011 12:33 »
Musky,
This is what you need
J023 ?S-twin-flux?:  the new ?fluxsensor? replacing the standard sensor $ 295.00
Or you could use 2 single units but that will really hurt the pocket
You buy them from:-
JE PERFORMANCE ,   P.O.Box 333, South Beach, OR 97366, USA;  
Phone: (541) 867-3194;  Fax: (541) 867-4964;
E-mail: jep@edstroementerprises.com Homepage: http://www.jeperformance.biz

You will still need to make a mounting plate for both the magnet & pick ups.
We turned an aluminum disc and mounted it under the cush drive nut with the pick ups mounted on a sandwich plate between the primary covers so you could just bolt it on sans cover for timing purposes ( it was the BETA version )

On the Unit bikes it got mounted onto a plate which fitted over the stator nuts with the magnets glued into a plate that fitted onto the end of the rotor ( timing pin needs to be shortened )
On the race bikes of course the whole alternator is discarded so the ignition bolted onto the end of the crank and the Ni-Cads were glued into the primary cavity ( a whole lot easier )

The prices have gone up a bit since then but so has the dollar.
You really need the "Fluxsensor" pick up to be able to tune the bike properly so it is now $ 295 US, plus fittings and labour so you can see why we gave up. Racers happily spent that sort of money  for 10% + more horses but "classic riders" won't

If you go down this path, watch the mixture, you really need to richen the brew and look closely at the cooling because with one in you can really turn up the heat.

Very little work was done for road use, just on Mikes daily ride, most was done on the dirt bikes and they only run for 20 minutes tops.
I was going to do the "road" testing but my finances went down the drain and Mike was never interested in any thing but race applications.
They I moved, changed jobs twice and when I tried to phone him last another company was in his old factory so he may have gone the same route as me. He was the bloke who did the banners for Wallerawang & Maitland and things were not looking too prosperious last year.

Bike Beesa
Trevor

Offline BSA_54A10

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Re: Electronic Ignition
« Reply #57 on: 17.08. 2011 12:50 »
Eric.
Just to satisify my curiosity did you fir the standard pick up unit or the variable "fluxsensor " one ?
Bike Beesa
Trevor

Offline Rocketerik

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Re: Electronic Ignition
« Reply #58 on: 17.08. 2011 14:40 »
Sensor
I use the normal sensor situated in place of the Lucas magneto. Made up substitute taking fiber gear in one end and rotor + sensor in the other end. Easy to adjust ignition rotating sensor. Timing of course requires removing transmission cover to fit degreewheel.
Started out fitting sensor at the crank but it got problems that I assumed was that the little magnet got hot so tried the position out in the wind. I believe there are different magnets taking higher temps.
Erik
  Erik
A10 Super Rocket 1960  Victor 441 1969  Bmw R80 G/S 81  HD-Aermacchi 350 1973

Offline cpdlink

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Re: Electronic Ignition
« Reply #59 on: 13.02. 2017 21:20 »
Hello from Montreal/Canada everybody - this is my first post here,

Sorry for replying to a such an old thread, but I have a couple of questions for Erik

I am also looking into an electronic ignition solution for my k2fc magneto, and so far [ http://www.westonuk.co.uk/westonuk2_073.htm ], apart from its incredible small current needs, is the one with the smallest footprint I could ever find - which is exactly what i am looking for

In an effort to keep the bike as close as possible to original look, i am thinking to install this EI module, right inside the magneto housing after, of course, replacing the armature with a simple shaft to make up some space inside

So here is what i would like to know, if you don't mind:
1. Are you still using this, any complains/concerns/suggestions after all these years
2. Is the module getting hot during normal usage - i am a bit concerned that inside the magneto, the module would not get the ventilation it needs

If anybody else has first hand experience with this product, please share

Regards,
-Chris