Author Topic: wrong headlight or bad fork shrouds?  (Read 2436 times)

Offline coater87

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wrong headlight or bad fork shrouds?
« on: 03.05. 2017 23:26 »
 Ok,

 The distance between my brand new fork shroud ears is 7 and 7/8 inches. I just got these from Burton Bike Bits. Paid a metric ton for shipping too.

 I hold the headlamp bucket up, and its an inch too narrow. The bucket measures 7 and 3/8 at its widest point. The mounts on the headlight are 6 and 7/8 inches apart at their widest point.

 So which part is the dodgiest?

 Please say the headlight bucket. The one I have was purchased 25 years ago and says "made in Taiwan" on it, and bought from a shady guy in Chicago.

 The fork shrouds are new and look OK.
Central Wisconsin in the U.S.

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Re: wrong headlight or bad fork shrouds?
« Reply #1 on: 03.05. 2017 23:53 »
Lee, I think that the headlight is OK.
I measured roughly on a Rocket and the mounting dimensions of the bucket seems about right.

Offline coater87

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Re: wrong headlight or bad fork shrouds?
« Reply #2 on: 04.05. 2017 01:16 »
I mounted one side of headlight, here is my view.

Central Wisconsin in the U.S.

Offline duTch

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Re: wrong headlight or bad fork shrouds?
« Reply #3 on: 04.05. 2017 03:24 »

 Are they the right fork yokes for the job ?
   I don't know the history of my bucket that I acquired well used (beat up*) late '80's/early '90's but looks like an upside-down version of yours with a different profile at the top, and just measured it at ~6,15/16" external across mounts, and fits a 7" reflector ok, but there's different profiles of them too *pull hair out*

 **When I say " a different profile at the top", mine is round all round, but I did say it was beat up, so I beat it into unbeat, and maybe should have unbeat the flat spot *eek*
Started building in about 1977/8 a on average '52 A10 -built from bits 'n pieces never resto intended -maybe 'personalised'
Have a '74 850T Moto Guzzi since '92-best thing I ever bought doesn't need a kickstart 'cos it bump starts sooooooooo(mostly) easy
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Online KiwiGF

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Re: wrong headlight or bad fork shrouds?
« Reply #4 on: 04.05. 2017 04:30 »
I agree with Dutch, the fork yokes are in the equation as a possible cause, really early (longstroke) a7's (I assume you have not one of those?) had wider yokes and larger headlights to suit. I just measured my 56 a10 and 1950 ish b31 and the stanchions are 7" centre to centre, measured across the top nuts.

The shrouds should have the "ear" roughly in the middle eg in the middle of the stanchion (if one could see it) if that makes sense.

I attach a pic of my b31 forks.
New Zealand

1956 A10 Golden Flash (1st finished project)

1949 B31 rigid “400cc hot rod” (2nd finished project, + favourite bike)

1949 C11 rigid, but why!!! (cos it was cheap)

1937 B21, project missing parts, mission impossible?

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Online JulianS

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Re: wrong headlight or bad fork shrouds?
« Reply #5 on: 04.05. 2017 10:35 »
My 1962 A10 is fitted with shrouds (which fit perfectly) from Burton Bike Bits - bought in 2013.

Measurements as follows;

Fork centres = 6.75 inches.

Between mounting points on genuine olds make  lucas shell = 7 inches. (external)

Between ears on shrouds = 7.1 inches (internal)

Photo shows where the ears are attached.

I think the early A7 had 7 1/4 inch between fork centres.


Offline coater87

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Re: wrong headlight or bad fork shrouds?
« Reply #6 on: 04.05. 2017 13:05 »
 Top yoke has casting number 42-5035 which appears to be right for the bike.

 I have taken a picture of the bottom yoke because I cannot find a casting number on it.

 The approximate center to center on the top nuts is 6 and maybe 7/8, its hard to be exact because the nuts are domed very shallow.

 In the picture you can see mount holes, can anyone confirm this is correct for a 58 swing arm flash?

 The fork legs appear parallel, just the shrouds ears are skewed at an outward angle.

 Julian, would you be able to take a picture of the front side of you lower yoke where the shrouds mount? I would like to see if yours differ from mine.

 Thanks guys,
Lee

Central Wisconsin in the U.S.

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Re: wrong headlight or bad fork shrouds?
« Reply #7 on: 04.05. 2017 14:20 »
Bottom yoke looks fine, looks just like mine, the screw holes are for mounting the horn in the nacelle of 1958 on Flash.

Hope the photos are useful.

Offline coater87

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Re: wrong headlight or bad fork shrouds?
« Reply #8 on: 04.05. 2017 15:37 »
Thanks Julian, I have the same set-up. But me shrouds are almost 8 inches apart *sad2*

 So another reproduction part is made terribly wrong, not a big shocker. Has anyone dealt with BBB in this type of situation?

 

 
Central Wisconsin in the U.S.

Offline coater87

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Re: wrong headlight or bad fork shrouds?
« Reply #9 on: 04.05. 2017 20:27 »
 I E-mailed BBB, and he asked if I was using the spacers ( *sad2*) and if I could send him some pictures. So I sent a bunch of pictures and an explanation of what exactly the problem is and reminded him the BSA does not require any spacers. Maybe he was thinking about a square four, I dont know.

 I will keep you informed as to whats happening here.

 Lee
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Offline coater87

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Re: wrong headlight or bad fork shrouds?
« Reply #10 on: 05.05. 2017 14:21 »
 well,

 This explains all about BBB:

Hi Lee,

It isn't something which we have encountered before. Are you using the
spacers? Can you send a photo of your setup?

 (So I wrote back:)


Hello Danny,
 
Im not sure what you mean by spacers, I think your thinking about an Ariel. This is a BSA flash.
 
I took a bunch of pictures, more than 1 e-mail worth, so I will send multiples so you get an idea of whats happening here.
 
Basically I put the forks together yesterday, the top and bottom yokes are correct numbers for the bike. I did not notice until I held up the headlight how far the fork ears point out to the sides. The headlight is the correct width for the bike, thats the first thing I thought of. Its 7 and 3/8 wide at the furthest out mounting points, the fork ears are over 8 inches inside to inside. The right side seems to be pointed out to the side even further than the left, but neither is straight. Im struggling to explain, I think the pictures will make it much more clear.

 I sent him 8 very clear photos of the problem, and even included one of Julians bike with the tape measure stretched across the perfectly fitting shrouds.

( Here is his reply:)


Hi Lee,
 
The BSA A10 uses headlamp mounting spacers. That will make up the difference. This is standard fitting
The number to use is 68-5108 ?1.99 each
 
The brackets need to point outwards to align with the headlamp.
 
I hope that helps
 
Regards,
Danny Page


 (So I wrote back:)


Hi Danny,
 
  I believe 68-5108 was first used in 1966 on the A65 which used different fork shrouds 8 years later, none of the parts drawings for the A10 show any spacers. Here is a picture of the A10 fork shrouds and headlight arrangements for this bike, I got this from the web instead of my own parts books because my scanner is on the blink again.

www.draganfly.co.uk/index.php/bsa/bsa/a710--b3133--c101112--m202133/category/938-938-
 
Those spacers mentioned are thin, I have over an inch of gap to take up on the right side, and 1/4 of that on the left to center up the headlight on the forks. I dont want to attempt to just "crank" the right side in at all, I think that will do nothing but bend up the fork ear.
 
After posting this problem on the BSA A7/A10 forum, I got a few very good pictures of how the fork shrouds should look when installed, they are facing straight forward. As a matter of fact, it was a member there that recommended I get these from you. He bought a set a while back that fit perfectly, and those are facing straight forward and not splayed out at two different angles as this set is.
 
I really believe that neither of these fork shrouds is made correctly, the right side being much worse than the left. I dont want to put an inch of spacers on the right side and none or one on the left, just to center up the headlight to where it should be- it would look terrible and be completely wrong for any bike.
 
I paid almost as much in shipping as I did for the shrouds, and they are made wrong. How do you normally handle cases like this?
 
Lee
 
 (So here is the reply:)


Hi Lee,
 
This would be the first issue we have had in 25 plus years of selling them. There is always a first of course!
 
Without actually seeing them, it is hard for us to make a judgement. We do have a bike here which we can try them on, and I will get someone to try a set on which we have here asap.
 
I can only suggest that if you are sure that they don?t fit, you return them to us for us to test.
 
You are right, part number 68-5108 is a later number, but those are the spacers commonly used. As for the parts book illustration, I don?t believe that the bolts are shown either, that doesn?t mean that they aren?t used, probably were originally part of the headlamp, with the spacers.
 
Regards,

Danny Page


  *angry* *angry* *angry*

 So obviously, Danny Page knows nothing about A10 motorcycles or gives two giant sh*^$ about customer service.

 The pictures clearly show these are defective, but I can (at my own additional cost) send these back to a bodging jackass to "test" knowing he is OK with jamming 10 spacers in one side of a headlight, and 1 in the other side and calling it Good Enough. Because I am obviously too stupid to know when a part does not fit.

 Then of course you get the same old bullsh*t about "never had a bad one before" even though everything he sells must be from India to be this poorly made.

 So now I take this right in the ass, 200 pounds for junk parts. Because it will eventually cost me 500 pounds for this A-Hole to admit he sold me junk, and then send me a new one that will be just as crappy as the old one.

 And at this point my only option is to start grinding off the new powder coat I paid for, start cutting and welding these "Bestest Quality UK Made" parts just to try and get them to fit. *angry*

 

 


 



 
 

 
Central Wisconsin in the U.S.

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Re: wrong headlight or bad fork shrouds?
« Reply #11 on: 05.05. 2017 15:10 »
G'day Lee.
Sounds like your getting the "royal run around".
I'd suggest you send Danny a link to this topic
http://www.a7a10.net/forum/index.php?topic=11666.msg89200;topicseen#msg89200
I doubt if he'd like the bad publicity. Like another supplier has been getting lately!
This forum has 100's of visitors daily.
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Offline coater87

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Re: wrong headlight or bad fork shrouds?
« Reply #12 on: 07.05. 2017 02:03 »
 Thats a good idea!

 I last e-mailed that He didnt need to do any testing, you could hold them up and see they were not right. He never got back to me. Zero customer service or knowledge of these bikes.

 I did math I have not done since high school, The right side was off 12 degrees, the left side off 3 degrees from the center line of the bike. I figured that out using the radius and the distance of an arc (I did have to look some of it up, I remember just enough to screw it up *conf*).

 Anyway, here it is in the mocked up state. You can tell how good these were by how far I had to slot the mounting holes. Plus I had to move the level of the slots to get a better fit at the top.

 I used a slitting saw on the tabs to make the fronts "longer", then bent them to shape with a couple small pieces of aluminum and a large pliers.

 All I had that came close enough to size of the holes was a dremel grinding stone, It worked. The backs had to be ground the same as the fronts, just the opposite way.

 Now its just welding the slots back into holes, trimming the tabs back to the correct shape, and getting them painted or powder coated. An awful lot of time, effort, and soon to be money on brand new parts this guy has never had a problem with.
Central Wisconsin in the U.S.

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Re: wrong headlight or bad fork shrouds?
« Reply #13 on: 07.05. 2017 03:04 »
Hi Lee,
Have a look at this set from the same place.
They were bought some time ago by a friend who thought they would suit his A65 and then he bought a chromed set supposedly of the correct type which I have mentioned elsewhere.
Having seen your issues, I thought that I would mock up them in a project under way.
The pictures tell it all, bestest quality.   *angry*
Obviously there is no point in mentioning to the supplier as they have no problems with them.

Offline Jules

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Re: wrong headlight or bad fork shrouds?
« Reply #14 on: 07.05. 2017 07:21 »
geez you guys have me worried now, I bought new shrouds from Dragonfly a few years back now (they actually "look" good)  and have yet to assemble them onto the bike (bit like my Armour exhausts bought many years ago and still not assembled!), My bike was a mess when purchased so I've spent years just collecting parts ready to restore it and as you know from my posts, things never actually work out as planned, each step requires some manipulation somewhere *work* *pull hair out*...good luck Lee!
PS I think the only thing I've purchased from BBB was a front guard stay supposedly for a standard deep GF guard, needless to say it was wrong!! and their response was "well that's what it is designed for and its the only one we have" (per their literature it was for this purpose) "so send it back if its wrong", yep postage back from Australia, forget it!