Author Topic: anti wet sump valve linked to mag cutout  (Read 3979 times)

Offline duTch

  • Ricketty Rocketty Golden Flashback
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Oct 2011
  • Posts: 4528
  • Karma: 41
Re: anti wet sump valve linked to mag cutout
« Reply #30 on: 29.10. 2018 15:17 »

 So *????* rocker21 threw the turd in the pan and buggered off....... *conf2*
Started building in about 1977/8 a on average '52 A10 -built from bits 'n pieces never resto intended -maybe 'personalised'
Have a '74 850T Moto Guzzi since '92-best thing I ever bought doesn't need a kickstart 'cos it bump starts sooooooooo(mostly) easy
Australia

Offline lawnmowerman

  • Resident Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Dec 2009
  • Posts: 624
  • Karma: 8
  • 1959 Super Rocket. Kent, England
Re: anti wet sump valve linked to mag cutout
« Reply #31 on: 29.10. 2018 15:41 »
 *lol* *lol* *lol*
1959 A10 SR
1938 Wolseley 14/60
1955 Ferguson TEF20 tractor
1965 Ferguson 135 tractor
1952 Matchless G80 rigid
1960 BMW R60
1954 Matchless G80S
1955 Ariel 500 VH
1951 Sunbeam S7DL
1960 Matchless G12 with Watsonian Monza
......and loads of lawnmowers

Too old to Rock and Roll but too young to die  (Jethro Tull 1976)

Offline RogerSB

  • 1960 Golden Flash, Plymouth, Devon, England
  • Resident Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2017
  • Posts: 854
  • Karma: 9
Re: anti wet sump valve linked to mag cutout
« Reply #32 on: 29.10. 2018 17:49 »
To use this type of switch we must also remember that it doesn't relieve the rider of the responsibility to make sure it's switched to the on position before starting and that the earth to the mag cut out is just there as a fail safe in case the rider forgets.  As opposed to the anti wet sumping valve with ball and spring that the rider has no control of and relies on suction from the oil pump. That's why I removed mine - even though it worked fine for the years a previous owner had it fitted.

1960 Golden Flash

Online muskrat

  • Global Moderator
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • **
  • Join Date: Jul 2009
  • Posts: 10760
  • Karma: 130
  • Lithgow NSW Oz
    • Shoalhaven Classic Motorcycle Club Inc
Re: anti wet sump valve linked to mag cutout
« Reply #33 on: 29.10. 2018 19:13 »
G'day fellas.
If anyone has an excuse to use a tap it's my plunger. Full oiltank ends up in the sump in only 2 weeks. Then I remember seeing the Notrun Commical rider just up the road with a hole in the crank. The "Oh poo" look on his face when I pointed to the tap.
Cheers
'51 A7 plunger, '57 A7SS racer now a A10CR, '78 XT500, '83 CB1100F, 88 HD FXST, 2000 CBR929RR ex Honda Australia Superbike .
Australia
Muskys Plunger A7

Offline rocker21

  • A's Good Friend
  • ***
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 200
  • Karma: 2
Re: anti wet sump valve linked to mag cutout
« Reply #34 on: 30.10. 2018 12:25 »
well this has produced a lot of discussion and i am still none the wiser as no one seems to have fitted one, i thought it looked a good idea if fitted in such a way as the electrical connection to earth and the mag was reliable , which should be possible to do. i would be interested to hear from anyone who has fitted one as i am rebuilding my A7ss and hope to finish it this xmas hols and get it on the road for next spring.
1960 A7SS, 1954 Ariel fieldmaster 500 twin, motoguzzi Monza 500, motoguzzi V7III special, Yamaha sr400 (2014)

Online Greybeard

  • Jack of all trades; master of none.
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Feb 2011
  • Posts: 9811
  • Karma: 49
Re: anti wet sump valve linked to mag cutout
« Reply #35 on: 30.10. 2018 12:38 »
I don't really have a problem with wet-sumping, especially since I changed the internal anti-syphon valve. If the bike hasn't been used all winter I just let the engine run until it's pumped the oil back into the tank. I am not willing to risk any chance of the oil feed being blocked.
Greybeard (Neil)
2023 Gold Star
Supporter of THE DISTINGUISHED GENTLEMAN'S RIDE https://www.gentlemansride.com

Warwickshire UK


A Distinguished Gentleman Riding his 1955 Plunger Golden Flash

Offline RDfella

  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Aug 2017
  • Posts: 2193
  • Karma: 15
Re: anti wet sump valve linked to mag cutout
« Reply #36 on: 30.10. 2018 13:10 »
Dunno how Greybeard gets away with that. When I ran by GF wet-sumped oil poured out of the breather - not just a trickle - and the smoke was unbelievable. Anything behind became totally invisible.
As my GF is not a daily rider, this wet sumping is a real PITA. Couple of my other bikes do it, but nowhere as bad and, if necessary, can be cleared the Greybeard way. So if I leave the GF for a week or more, it's drain sump time again. And I'm already getting tired of it. But what to do?
The usual ball valve is tempting, and possibly my first choice. An ordinary valve will, one day, be left closed so cannot be considered. But what about this new device? Looks interesting, but I'm troubled by two things. First, the price. Those valves are £1, so I'd be paying over £40 for the mod. To me that's excessive. Also, my mag - as on my other bikes - has a push button stop. Presumably I would then have to change the mag cap to a wired type and run two wires - one to this new valve and one to a horn button type kill switch somewhere else.
'49 B31, '49 M21, '53 DOT, '58 Flash, '62 Flash special, '00 Firestorm, Weslake sprint bike.

Online Greybeard

  • Jack of all trades; master of none.
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Feb 2011
  • Posts: 9811
  • Karma: 49
Re: anti wet sump valve linked to mag cutout
« Reply #37 on: 30.10. 2018 13:17 »
Once, after the bike had been left for months, (this was before I changed the internal valve) I forgot about the oil in the sump and topped up the tank. Whoops! What a mess. Black shiny boots!
Greybeard (Neil)
2023 Gold Star
Supporter of THE DISTINGUISHED GENTLEMAN'S RIDE https://www.gentlemansride.com

Warwickshire UK


A Distinguished Gentleman Riding his 1955 Plunger Golden Flash

Online berger

  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Nov 2017
  • Posts: 2909
  • Karma: 20
  • keith.uk 500sscafe.norbsa JDM honda 750fz
Re: anti wet sump valve linked to mag cutout
« Reply #38 on: 30.10. 2018 13:41 »
waterproof boots or fire hazard greybeard? swarfy-- expensive but SRM oil pump stopped my crankcase trying to drink as much as I do *beer*

Online muskrat

  • Global Moderator
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • **
  • Join Date: Jul 2009
  • Posts: 10760
  • Karma: 130
  • Lithgow NSW Oz
    • Shoalhaven Classic Motorcycle Club Inc
Re: anti wet sump valve linked to mag cutout
« Reply #39 on: 30.10. 2018 18:58 »
G'day fellas.
Two things you can do about wet sumping.
Live with it and take 5 minutes before a ride and drain the sump.
Fix it, split motor for new anti siphon valve and new oil pump.
Cheers
'51 A7 plunger, '57 A7SS racer now a A10CR, '78 XT500, '83 CB1100F, 88 HD FXST, 2000 CBR929RR ex Honda Australia Superbike .
Australia
Muskys Plunger A7

Offline kiwipom

  • Resident Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jan 2011
  • Posts: 745
  • Karma: 8
Re: anti wet sump valve linked to mag cutout
« Reply #40 on: 31.10. 2018 03:09 »
Hi guys, every option is fraught with danger , don’t do it is my opinion leave for a long time and drain the sump, cheers
A10.G.Flash(cafe racer)Honda 250 vtr. Yamaha Virago XV920.

War! what is it good for?Absolutely nothing, Edwin Star.
NewZealand

Offline duTch

  • Ricketty Rocketty Golden Flashback
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Oct 2011
  • Posts: 4528
  • Karma: 41
Re: anti wet sump valve linked to mag cutout
« Reply #41 on: 31.10. 2018 03:50 »

  And I'll do my broken record trick and say- yet again- if you *know* you'll leave it long enough to be an issue,  just drain the tank into a bottle, and hang it on the  twist- grip to pour back in when you need it.... too easy ? *conf2*
Started building in about 1977/8 a on average '52 A10 -built from bits 'n pieces never resto intended -maybe 'personalised'
Have a '74 850T Moto Guzzi since '92-best thing I ever bought doesn't need a kickstart 'cos it bump starts sooooooooo(mostly) easy
Australia

Offline worntorn

  • Valued Contributor
  • ****
  • Join Date: Jun 2015
  • Posts: 396
  • Karma: 3
Re: anti wet sump valve linked to mag cutout
« Reply #42 on: 31.10. 2018 05:17 »
well this has produced a lot of discussion and i am still none the wiser as no one seems to have fitted one, i thought it looked a good idea if fitted in such a way as the electrical connection to earth and the mag was reliable , which should be possible to do. i would be interested to hear from anyone who has fitted one as i am rebuilding my A7ss and hope to finish it this xmas hols and get it on the road for next spring.

I made up a manual anti-sump valve for my Vincent 1360. That bike has an ignition switch. The key for the switch is locked in the valve until the valve is turned on.
It has worked without a hitch for three years now. Ive wracked my brain but I just don't see a failure point in it. So I just use it and don't worry about all the predictions of imminent doom.
I would first try the various fixes for BSA wet sumping mentioned here. My A10 keeps its oil in the tank for two months with very little drain down. It doesn't need an external anti sump valve, just a startup every couple of months or so.

Glen

Online groily

  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Jul 2007
  • Posts: 1844
  • Karma: 31
    • www.brightsparkmagnetos.com
Re: anti wet sump valve linked to mag cutout
« Reply #43 on: 31.10. 2018 08:37 »
I agree with you Glen.
I've got 4 AMC & Notrun twins (all  notoriously prone to wet-sumping) fitted with 10mm heating valves with mag earths, using slight extensions to the operating levers to engage positively with carefully-sited adjacent sprung-blade contacts.
They work fine, I don't worry, and test them now and again by switching them off to stop the engines (with a finger hovering over the usual button or on/off switch - just in case!)
Worth the effort on machines where a frequent sump drain routine could (would probably!) wear out the thread in the crankcase, which is a total swine to sort if it strips. (Notruns can be fitted, like As with modded plates, with incontinence pads with a drain screw in the middle of the massive plug + gauze filter arrangement - but AMCs can't.)

A guy called Andrew Dove also makes these things and has done for ages, but they are much chunkier than the one under discussion and imho not very elegantly put together. About the same price.

Luckily my A doesn't need anything since I sorted the ball & spring inside the cases a few years back.  Hardly lets a drop pass, and didn't need to replace the oil pump - just the wormy drive bits to be on the safe side.

Horses for courses I reckon.
Bill

Offline Butch (cb)

  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Aug 2010
  • Posts: 1691
  • Karma: 16
Re: anti wet sump valve linked to mag cutout
« Reply #44 on: 31.10. 2018 09:07 »
Mine doesn't wet sump a drop, even when left for months. Roger at Cake Street put my motor together after I messed up the first time.
Warning - observations made by this member have a 93% unreliability rating.

Of Bikes; various, including ...
'58 S/Arm Iron Head Flash Bitza