Author Topic: anti wet sump valve linked to mag cutout  (Read 1647 times)

Offline rocker21

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anti wet sump valve linked to mag cutout
« on: 24.10. 2018 16:48 »
http://www.kingpincomponents.co.uk/oil-tap-with-cutout-switch
has anyone tried these? looks like a way round a well known problem when bikes a laid up as it wont start if the  valve is in the off position.
did not know these were made, looks like a simple idea that should work..

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Re: anti wet sump valve linked to mag cutout
« Reply #1 on: 24.10. 2018 17:21 »
  A similar product is offered by some fellas who trade as "The Magneto Guys"   Seems a good idea. Always looked upon the  standard anti wet sumping ball valve as another obstruction to impede oil flow.

  Swarfy.

Offline bikerjohndavies

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Re: anti wet sump valve linked to mag cutout
« Reply #2 on: 24.10. 2018 17:23 »
Its the same product. The chap who makes these and has set up Kingpin Components still works for The Magneto Guys as well.
1937 Panther M100 Rigid, 1946 Ariel Square 4, 1952 Norton Model 7, 1953 BSA A10SF (WIP), 1958 BSA C15, 1961 Triumph T120R

Online lawnmowerman

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Re: anti wet sump valve linked to mag cutout
« Reply #3 on: 24.10. 2018 22:05 »
I had a look at these. I have a valve fitted at present without a switch and I am concerned that one day I will forget to switch the oil on as old age advances. They look ok but I cannot see a terminal to attach an earth wire - it would be ok with solid copper pipes I suppose.
I am going to Ardingley on Sunday so I will see if I can find them and have a look at one.

Jim
1959 A10 SR
1938 Wolseley 14/60
1955 Ferguson TEF20 tractor
1965 Ferguson 135 tractor
1952 Matchless G80 rigid
1960 BMW R60
1954 Matchless G80S
1955 Ariel 500 VH
1951 Sunbeam S7DL
1960 Matchless G12 with Watsonian Monza
......and loads of lawnmowers

Too old to Rock and Roll but too young to die  (Jethro Tull 1976)

Online beezermacc

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Re: anti wet sump valve linked to mag cutout
« Reply #4 on: 25.10. 2018 07:59 »
A good idea to protect against forgetfulness. However, one other problem with anti wet sump valves is that if the bike is left standing for a long time the oil pump will drain out dry, particularly if the pump is a bit worn. In these circumstances the pump won't return because it cannot create a vacuum within its return chambers. This will happen even after you've turned the valve on again unless you remember to wait for the oil to drain out of the return pipe and rocker pipe back into the pump.
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Offline cyclobutch

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Re: anti wet sump valve linked to mag cutout
« Reply #5 on: 25.10. 2018 13:13 »
A good idea to protect against forgetfulness. However, one other problem with anti wet sump valves is that if the bike is left standing for a long time the oil pump will drain out dry, particularly if the pump is a bit worn. In these circumstances the pump won't return because it cannot create a vacuum within its return chambers. This will happen even after you've turned the valve on again unless you remember to wait for the oil to drain out of the return pipe and rocker pipe back into the pump.

I suspect that is exactly where mine went wrong.
Various, including ...
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Offline RogerSB

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Re: anti wet sump valve linked to mag cutout
« Reply #6 on: 25.10. 2018 15:44 »
I had an anti wet sumping valve fitted, no wet sumping . . . great!   But I got cold feet and removed it for the reasons Beezermacc highlighted. If I could be sure the valve was working under all circumstances with a linked cut out switch I'd refit. Otherwise I'd sooner run my bike every couple of weeks or if left longer drain the sump.

1960 Golden Flash

Online bsa-bill

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Re: anti wet sump valve linked to mag cutout
« Reply #7 on: 25.10. 2018 15:57 »
Same here Roger
All the best - Bill
1961 Flash - stock, reliable, steady, fantastic for shopping
1959 Rocket Gold Flash - blinged and tarted up  would have seizure if taken to  Tesco

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Re: anti wet sump valve linked to mag cutout
« Reply #8 on: 25.10. 2018 16:40 »
   Fellow worriers....The scavenge side of the pump should not dry out on prolonged standing, the little non return ball valve on the  pick up pipe in the sump is designed to prevent this. If  this ball valve  does leak, and the scavenge side is dry, then there is nothing you can easily do, except take the oil cap off and observe the return, fingers crossed. Which I know you all do.

   With a manual tap in the supply line, gravity will prime the pump, if has run dry, by the time you have prepared yourself for the big kick.   Beezermacc  is correct that a dry pump will have very little suck and the danger with all suck operated valves in the supply line is if there is not enough suck the valve will not open to allow oil to prime the pump. This is because the spring pressure closing the valve has to be overcome by the cohesive force of the oil being sucked. No oil, just air in the pipe below the valve means no cohesive force, valve stays shut.

  So, I would choose a manual safety type tap rather than an automatic valve. Plus regular use and a drain plug in the sump plate for the time I forget to turn off the tap.

  Swarfy.

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Re: anti wet sump valve linked to mag cutout
« Reply #9 on: 25.10. 2018 17:07 »
That is my logic Swarfy. There is quite a head of oil from the top of the oil tank down to the pump so even if the pump drains there should be enough pressure to prime it.
I had a one way valve already fitted when I bought the bike but I removed the ball and spring inside it in case it stuck shut due to an air lock in the pump. I have a central heating oil tap on mine at the moment with no switch but I put a piece of white plastic waste pipe over the kickstart with "oil tap" written on it when I turn the oil off. When I take it off it goes in the top box.
I have been looking for a valve with a built-in kill switch for a while now and I will probably buy one of the switches mentioned if I can find him at Ardingly on Sunday. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I can only see one terminal on the switch to connect to the mag kill but I cannot see an earth terminal - I will have a look on Sunday.
With the switch fitted I think it would be a good idea to use it to stop the engine which will prove it is still working ok and will prevent forgetting to turn the oil off. I always take the oil cap off and check return every time I start for the first time every day and I find that the return starts pretty quickly even if the oil has been shut off at the valve for a month or more.
I will update this topic when I have had a look at one of the valves.

Jim
1959 A10 SR
1938 Wolseley 14/60
1955 Ferguson TEF20 tractor
1965 Ferguson 135 tractor
1952 Matchless G80 rigid
1960 BMW R60
1954 Matchless G80S
1955 Ariel 500 VH
1951 Sunbeam S7DL
1960 Matchless G12 with Watsonian Monza
......and loads of lawnmowers

Too old to Rock and Roll but too young to die  (Jethro Tull 1976)

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Re: anti wet sump valve linked to mag cutout
« Reply #10 on: 25.10. 2018 17:10 »
   Fellow worriers....The scavenge side of the pump should not dry out on prolonged standing, the little non return ball valve on the  pick up pipe in the sump is designed to prevent this. If  this ball valve  does leak.......



I find that invariably this ball valve is ineffective and does leak. The contents of the return side are very small, i.e. the return oil pipe and rocker feed, so it doesn't take long for this quantity to pass through the pump and into the sump, if the pump is worn.
Priory Magnetos Ltd - A10 spares, magneto and dynamo refurbs. www.priorymagnetos.co.uk

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Re: anti wet sump valve linked to mag cutout
« Reply #11 on: 25.10. 2018 17:42 »
 Hi  Lawn Jim.. Central heating oil tap is  a very good idea, convenient and readily available from the likes of Toolstation and Screwfix. Here in Suffolk we have just had our oil fired boiler serviced, the fella swapped out a filter element in the tank supply line to the boiler. Got me thinking about another cheap way of adding a filter to the bike. The filter unit is a simple alloy casting, filter bowl and paper element. Time to explore oil fired heating.

  Hi Beezermacc  You are certainly right here, and it is always a bit of a worry as you wait for the return. First the dribbles, then the gulps and finally that nice solid stream  that means all is well. No doubt that last comment will cause some unintentional amusement.  Alas fixing this valve is not a 5 minute job.

 Swarfy

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Re: anti wet sump valve linked to mag cutout
« Reply #12 on: 25.10. 2018 17:46 »
First the dribbles, then the gulps and finally that nice solid stream that means all is well.
It's my age!  ;)

Offline berger

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Re: anti wet sump valve linked to mag cutout
« Reply #13 on: 25.10. 2018 18:05 »
swarfy if you log on to my very first post, INTRODUCTION, you can enlarge that picture and see a filter I borrowed from work{ mounted just above the magneto }that was used on oil fired industrial boilers. it has a neat nylon filter inside the canister which has performed very well over the years and I used borrowed plastic? air line for the return as well, its top has PERFECTION PARTS cast into it but an internet search didn't find anything when I was looking for another, but there are some really neat oil filters similar on the web.

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Re: anti wet sump valve linked to mag cutout
« Reply #14 on: 25.10. 2018 18:15 »
Here in Suffolk we have just had our oil fired boiler serviced, the fella swapped out a filter element in the tank supply line to the boiler. Got me thinking about another cheap way of adding a filter to the bike. The filter unit is a simple alloy casting, filter bowl and paper element. Time to explore oil fired heating.


 Swarfy

There are heating oil filter elements which are not suitable for engine oil.