Author Topic: anti wet sump valve linked to mag cutout  (Read 1653 times)

Offline worntorn

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Re: anti wet sump valve linked to mag cutout
« Reply #60 on: 02.11. 2018 12:56 »

 Another pesky thought about that ball and its seat.

    Seems to me that on the original A10 set up, oil pressure pushes the ball off its seat in the crankcase to expose the oilway to the timing bush. I do not have a case without a bush to hand, so I can't be sure of this. It could be that oil is just supposed to flow around the ball, in other words the ball is now a mobile obstruction to oil flow. The spring retaining plug diameter looks to be bigger than 1/4" so the oilway must be slightly bigger than the ball.

   On the A65 conversion in the link above it appears the 1/4" ball is in an oilway of the same diameter.  So, is this a good idea anyway?

  Anyone got a case in bits to check or is there  a more enlightened overview of oilflow to the  bush?

  I reckon removing the ball valve and an external safety tap would be better for your bearings.
   
  Swarfy

Good point. Given that the timing side bush is far from being a bulletproof setup, it can use all the help (lube) it can get.

Glen

Offline berger

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Re: anti wet sump valve linked to mag cutout
« Reply #61 on: 02.11. 2018 14:07 »
I don't think that little ball and spring are a problem to the detriment of the bush. when I came back from the horror of fitting the pipes on the wrong way after more than 80 miles as some of you might remember , I blocked of the PRV release valve to measure the direct pressure with no relief. myself and a mate watched in amazement as the gauge shot round towards 300psi and ballooned the connecting tube . at this point the engine was running at just over 2000rpm and we could have got drowned in oil. when I stripped the engine the bush that had been hand scraped by daddy in the early eighties was measured by an engineer and he got a maximum of 5 thou wear and a minimum of 3 thou , so that little ball and spring can stay as BSA designed it in my engine. I have said that mine drained its oil to the sump a lot, but the srm pump has cured this - up to now   EDIT so you can stuff your fancy gadgets where the sun don't shine , right pub is shouting me thankyou for listening BYEEEEEE

Online RDfella

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Re: anti wet sump valve linked to mag cutout
« Reply #62 on: 02.11. 2018 16:33 »
duTch - very interesting and informative. In the pic you posted, I presume the last figure is .015 - ie the last figure has been amended, or is the 5 a tenth measurement? I ask because wire dia is probably the most critical part of a spring regarding tension. Given that the top spring has less coils and thicker wire (both increasing tension) I presume that's the A65 one. Ironically I was about to ask if anyone had the relevant spring measurements as, given the cost of them, it'd be far cheaper to make one. All you need is a lathe and a suitable mandrel - I usually use a masonry nail of appropriate size.
'49 B31, '49 M21, '53 DOT, '58 Flash, '00 Firestorm, Weslake sprint bike.

Online duTch

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Re: anti wet sump valve linked to mag cutout
« Reply #63 on: 02.11. 2018 18:54 »
 
Quote
......I presume the last figure is .015 - ie the last figure has been amended, or is the 5 a tenth measurement? .......

 Hiya RD, yep it is what it is; the top one is 0.0185" /eighteen and a half thou, and bottom one is 0.0125" twelve and a half thou (I 'edited' the '2')  These are what the digital caliper showed.

 The round thing below the balls is just a small magnet to wrangle the balls.....I agree re the spring tension- may not always be as it seems
Started building in about 1977/8 a on average '52 A10 -built from bits 'n pieces never resto intended -maybe 'personalised'
Have a '74 850T Moto Guzzi since '92-best thing I ever bought doesn't need a kickstart 'cos it bump starts sooooooooo(mostly) easy
Australia

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Re: anti wet sump valve linked to mag cutout
« Reply #64 on: 02.11. 2018 20:36 »
At the risk of being pedantic, and because I neither have an A series c'case half on my bench - or the timing cover off mine - I have a query (mainly because I'm very interested in this mod and may well carry it out on mine if it as simple as it seems). Certainly BSA recognised the wetsumping problem and resolved it when they updated to the A50/65 models. I was hitherto unaware that they had done this.
My query is this: the attached photo seems to show the spring, hole and ball all the same size. I appreciate it is a sketch and not a drawing, but because of that it's unhelpful. Clearly the ball can't be the same size as the hole, or little oil would get past. Furthermore, my memory seems to tell me that the original hole in the casing is around 3/16" - or 5mm for the youngsters among us. Surely, then, the solution should be to open that hole to, say, 8mm and fit a 5/16" spring (that will be a clearance fit) together with a 1/4" ball? By opening up the hole a shoulder for the spring would automatically be created and a 1/4 ball in an 8mm hole should not obstruct oil flow. I believe the A65 spring had a reduced dia at one end, so could this be the solution?
'49 B31, '49 M21, '53 DOT, '58 Flash, '00 Firestorm, Weslake sprint bike.

Online chaterlea25

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Re: anti wet sump valve linked to mag cutout
« Reply #65 on: 02.11. 2018 20:44 »
Hi RD and All,
I have started a new topic in a hope that the modification photos might be found in the future
and have added photos and dimensions of the way SRM do the modification
The oil gallery is enlarged to 5/16in. dia.

https://www.a7a10.net/forum/index.php?topic=13668.0

John
1961 Super Rocket
1963 RGS (ongoing)

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Re: anti wet sump valve linked to mag cutout
« Reply #66 on: 02.11. 2018 21:14 »
 
Quote
........I have started a new topic in a hope that the modification photos might be found in the future...

 Good idea John, I was thinking after my last post that it was substantially straying from topic  *whistle*...and for the record I didn't intend to be contradictory regarding the springs, that was what SRM sent me so just passed on the info... *beer*

 RD, I think you have your answer in Johns' 'new topic'  ^^ post

 
Started building in about 1977/8 a on average '52 A10 -built from bits 'n pieces never resto intended -maybe 'personalised'
Have a '74 850T Moto Guzzi since '92-best thing I ever bought doesn't need a kickstart 'cos it bump starts sooooooooo(mostly) easy
Australia

Offline paulmbsa

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Re: anti wet sump valve linked to mag cutout
« Reply #67 on: 03.11. 2018 11:30 »
bit baffled here no mention of the britie valve, i have them fitted to 10 bikes first one was fitted in 1994 to my B33 and is still going strong, my A10 which has done about 70k has one on and i have never had a problem, i have heard stories about them failing but can't help wondering if this was incorrect fitment or looking for someone to blame, I know lots of people with them fitted also with no problems, also unlike a lot i use my bikes so if there was a problem think i would have found it.
I am in no way connected with britie

Paul

Offline RogerSB

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Re: anti wet sump valve linked to mag cutout
« Reply #68 on: 03.11. 2018 17:13 »
bit baffled here no mention of the britie valve,
Paul
Hi Paul, see my replies 6, 18, 32, referring to one.

1960 Golden Flash

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Re: anti wet sump valve linked to mag cutout
« Reply #69 on: 03.11. 2018 17:36 »
bit baffled here no mention of the britie valve,
Paul
Hi Paul, see my replies 6, 18, 32, referring to one.

No mention of Britie in those posts.

Offline RogerSB

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Re: anti wet sump valve linked to mag cutout
« Reply #70 on: 03.11. 2018 17:51 »
bit baffled here no mention of the britie valve,
Paul
Hi Paul, see my replies 6, 18, 32, referring to one.

No mention of Britie in those posts.

Not by name but that is one in my photo that was originally fitted to my bike.

1960 Golden Flash

Online chaterlea25

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Re: anti wet sump valve linked to mag cutout
« Reply #71 on: 03.11. 2018 18:32 »
Hi Paul,
Being that lucky you should buy some lottery tickets *whistle*

John
1961 Super Rocket
1963 RGS (ongoing)

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Offline paulmbsa

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Re: anti wet sump valve linked to mag cutout
« Reply #73 on: 04.11. 2018 15:34 »
the lik referers to oe of my replys it must be bled, as long as you bleed it and check its returning job done and do this also when you drain the oil check its bled

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Re: anti wet sump valve linked to mag cutout
« Reply #74 on: 04.11. 2018 19:07 »
Hi All,
Paul,
Old BSA pumps are horrible leaky bas**rds
The oil can and does leak out of them losing the prime if an ASV is fitted  *warn*
A porus mazac pump body caused the engine in my brothers SR throw a rod through the cases  *eek*

John
1961 Super Rocket
1963 RGS (ongoing)