Author Topic: kicker  (Read 2674 times)

Online muskrat

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Re: kicker
« Reply #30 on: 10.10. 2015 20:18 »
 The flat tooth is supposed to just  make contact with a pinion tooth. It is supposed to just move the pinion enough so that the next tooth engages properly. Wear in any of the bushes will upset this.
Impacting the nut IS too tight. The nut is done up snug, the tab washer holds it there. Too tight and you deform the pinion bush. Is the hair spring behind the pinion in good shape?
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Offline duTch

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Re: kicker
« Reply #31 on: 11.10. 2015 01:05 »
  Pedro, have you tried engaging the kicker to mid stroke and see if there is free-play between it and the bendix...?

 I wrote this last night to post in Terry's inner case problem...which I'll post soon
Quote
Well yesterday I got under-excited and over curious, so had a dig in the various spare boxes I've accumulated, and the 'splined kick quadrant' I have is in the cover that came on the box I'm currently using- it's an early box with the flat kicker return spring, and the box came with a scroll on the output sprocket and complementary oil slinger thingy (in place of seal), so I believe it's a ridgy-didge early one...

  The point of this is, I'm asking others who know, just when were these quadrants used- I thought they may have been a later innovation, but sometimes good ideas get phased out *conf*

 Edit OCT' 12 @ 09;220 AEST    I added the pic of my splined 'quadrant' for reference
Started building in about 1977/8 a on average '52 A10 -built from bits 'n pieces never resto intended -maybe 'personalised'
Have a '74 850T Moto Guzzi since '92-best thing I ever bought doesn't need a kickstart 'cos it bump starts sooooooooo(mostly) easy
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Offline duTch

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Re: kicker
« Reply #32 on: 12.10. 2015 00:56 »

 and in addition to the above, but it won't 'fix' anything, but do you have the stock kick lever (mine measures 165mm/ 6,1/2"), because I use a longer folding one (~200mm/ 7,3/4"), and I have an aftermarket folder that is ~185mm/ 7,1/4"; reason I ask is because if you have the stocker, a longer one may relieve your legs a bit....hope you got it sorted
Started building in about 1977/8 a on average '52 A10 -built from bits 'n pieces never resto intended -maybe 'personalised'
Have a '74 850T Moto Guzzi since '92-best thing I ever bought doesn't need a kickstart 'cos it bump starts sooooooooo(mostly) easy
Australia

Offline pedrochapala

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Re: kicker
« Reply #33 on: 13.10. 2015 15:20 »
dammit-not sorted-still the same. i wonder if the quadrant is poorly made and maybe the teeth aren't meshing right. why would it work sometimes when i crank it several times with  the clutch and then try it?  look at the fotos again. are the teeth meshing correctly?

Online RichardL

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Re: kicker
« Reply #34 on: 13.10. 2015 16:25 »
Pedro,

Sorry to hear that your troubles didn't go away.  It's hard to see much by looking at the pictures. In the picture where the short tooth is just engaging, it looks like the next pointy tooth is trying to get into the same notch. If that's happening, it seems like it would cause a jam-up right at the start of the kick then let go once past that point. But, you ground down that tooth, so hard to say if it would look the same now.

As for your match-up of quadrant to pinion, it seems to me that that shouldn't cause a problem because your pinion is more pointy  than square. In looking at pinions that are out there, I am seeing what looks like three types: really flat tops (completely wrong); pointy, like your quadrant; and, just slightly flattened (like your pinion). I think this "just slightly flattened" type is probably still the right fit for your quadrant and it was just the way they made the gear as an aftermarket part. If someone else knows the "for certain" correct story on this, now would be a good time to chime in.   

I was thinking about what Muskrat said about over-tightening the nut and squashing the sleeve. I would think that would not cause jamming in the downstroke, but might cause the lever to not return for the next kick (sometimes I need more than one *smile*).

Other thoughts: How confident are you regarding everything inside the gearbox?; something in the primary like rubbing nut (as mentioned) or super over-tight chain; etc. I am running out of ideas (because of my limited knowledge, of course). I wish I could run down to Mexico to help you work it out. Not saying that would solve the problem, but we could have some good times with cerveza.

Richard L.
Plan on signing up for the world-wide 2020 DISTINGUISHED GENTLEMAN'S RIDEon September 27, 2020 (if it's not cancelled and we are free to move about by then). Watch website at https://www.gentlemansride.com for details.

Offline pedrochapala

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Re: kicker
« Reply #35 on: 13.10. 2015 22:43 »
the moto runs and idles fine when it does get going. the primary chain is fine[play].. it's unfortunate that i can't put up a video because i have one of me starting it with the greatest of ease before the shyte hit the fan. there is always room in our casa fer a fellow a-10-er but 4 days max-jaja!
i just spoke to mi amigo carl,southwest cycle in abq,nm.my go to parts guy. it's been a while since he's worked on an a-10 gearbox but he has an old complete gearbox that he's going to open and look at and i'm to call him back later this week. what if the splines on the quadrant are too long causing them to jam-i'm wondering?

Offline pedrochapala

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Re: kicker
« Reply #36 on: 15.10. 2015 18:28 »

Online chaterlea25

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Re: kicker
« Reply #37 on: 15.10. 2015 20:01 »
Hi Pedro,
A long shot  *????* *????*
In the photos you posted of the inside of the gearbox a dark shadow / line can be seen between the top edge of the layshaft and bush  *????* is there play there *????*
Some years ago I was given a couple of gallons of "gear oil" I had rebuilt my SR gearbox because it used to drip gear oil while on the side stand. I used the oil I was given to fill the box
Probably less than 1000 miles later I was trying to slow the leak from the speedo drive *problem* and took off the end cover to change the speedo drive bush
I found lots of bronze swarf in the oil  *angry*
The only answer I could come up with was that the gear oil contained additives which attacked the bronze?

Maybe the oil you used after the gearbox rebuild has attacked the bronze bushes in your gearbox?
I would pull the box apart and look at all the components again *doh*

HTH
John

1961 Super Rocket
1963 RGS (ongoing)

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Re: kicker
« Reply #38 on: 15.10. 2015 20:20 »
Good spot John, I'd been studying the pics and missed that. So if the bushings in the constant mesh gear are worn bad enough the shaft movement might bind and cause a stiff kicker (that sounds rude).
Pedro, is there any movement in the mainshaft?
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'51 A7 plunger, '57 A7SS now A10CR,  '83 CB1100F, 88 FXST .
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Muskys Plunger A7

Online Greybeard

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Re: kicker
« Reply #39 on: 15.10. 2015 22:30 »
In the photos you posted of the inside of the gearbox a dark shadow / line can be seen between the top edge of the layshaft and bush  *????* is there play there *????*
Do you mean this? It certainly doesn't look right does it.

Offline duTch

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Re: kicker
« Reply #40 on: 16.10. 2015 01:54 »

  That's good spotting John-  it appears that the  layshaft is not protruding far enough through...?
  If this is the case, and I recall one of the things Pedro did a while ago was layshaft related, and had a missing circlip behind the constant mesh gear, so if that's still missing, is possible the gear has pushed too far on the shaft, which allows the layshaft to sit in further- either that or the thrust washer behind first gear is on the outside instead. ...?
Started building in about 1977/8 a on average '52 A10 -built from bits 'n pieces never resto intended -maybe 'personalised'
Have a '74 850T Moto Guzzi since '92-best thing I ever bought doesn't need a kickstart 'cos it bump starts sooooooooo(mostly) easy
Australia

Offline pedrochapala

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Re: kicker
« Reply #41 on: 16.10. 2015 16:57 »
never assume please. note how in this foto the inner housing is moved forward slightly which always happens when i take off the outer. front and back brass bushings are brand new and think about it-if the layshaft were as you think, the speedo wouldn't work which it does. the layshaft gear locating rings are just that and if you know what you're doing are not necessary. i've owned the beezer fer 23 years and they never were there. the layshaft thrust washer is in place correctly. i have always used the same gear oil and there is no residue.

Online chaterlea25

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Re: kicker
« Reply #42 on: 16.10. 2015 18:23 »
HI Pedro,
OK, All good there so

one more question? cany you rotate the ratchet gear anticlockwise freely, ? (click,click,click)

John
1961 Super Rocket
1963 RGS (ongoing)

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Re: kicker
« Reply #43 on: 16.10. 2015 19:29 »
Bugga, back to square one.
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Re: kicker
« Reply #44 on: 16.10. 2015 19:41 »
OK lets get away from the box. Your 1st post you say "clearance should be 7-8 thou not the factory 4.5." You are talking piston clearance. Way too much and with a fresh bore & rings there would be a lot of blow by. If the crankcase breather has issues it may be building pressure over a few kicks. Plungers don't have a crank seal on the primary side so when running pressure builds up in the primary and escapes around the mainshaft.
 *pull hair out*
Cheers
'51 A7 plunger, '57 A7SS now A10CR,  '83 CB1100F, 88 FXST .
Australia
Muskys Plunger A7